Should I buy a GM? or should I jump ship?

Sound like you already made your decision. If I were you don't hesitate and infact don't look back ever. Move one!! Buy what ever you like.

yep, and remember your observations and comments when your asian product gives you nothing but problems. Doesn't matter, european, asia, american, if it goes round and round it's gonna break down. There are many good american autos out there made by americans by american companies but if you feel like supporting a foriegn company have right at it and don't be surprised when the only job your kids or grandkids can find is at burger king or cleaning bathrooms.

Don't bet on it. All the God d#$^ mexicans are getting those jobs now too.

If your concern is indeed for the 'little' guy you should go buy a new, not used, GM vehicle. The prices are terrific. Way below what it will cost you to buy a Toyota. ;)

mike hunt

Johnny Acti>

Leave it to the American consumer to willfully export the jobs of their own offspring. Why Americans buy foreign cars, when there are so many American cars that are just as reliable or more so on the market that can be had for less money, is beyond me. That is so stupid.

mike hunt

";-p" wrote:

That is all more the reason you should buy American ;)

mike hunt

Dennis Smith wrote:

the irony is that some of the so called "american" cars are made in MEXICO and some of the so called "Foreign" car are made in USA (i.e Mitsubishi: Normal, IL, Corolla: Somewhere in CA)

Tough call but I'm sorry for 25000 workers (nearly 100 000 people considering families)

Your arguement is somewhat flawed.

There are parts and subassemblies and engines made in Mexico but no GM cars. NAFTA considers Mexico and Canada as North American made and stated as such. If you buy a GM product rest assured it is and American auto and the profits from that auto stay pretty much in North America. So the autos you are talking about qualify as American made.

Buy a U.S. made Asian product and the profits go to their home land and do not stay here. The parts used in most Asian auto assembled here in the 'States' are imported from the oversea asian makers.

It is a tough call for the 25k GM workers but it happens. Good thing most of the job loss will be through attrition and not through direct layoffs.

Go ahead and keep buying foriegn made products(not just autos) and your offspring will have to flip burgers etc(low paying dead end jobs).

One day Americans will learn that manufacturing of a product was and is the basis the American economy was founded on. No U.S. product, no real U.S. economy.

;-p

I like asking questions:

the other side of the story: There are two things you should consider:

1 profit that gm made 2 tax and sallary the foreign company pays Without knowing these numbers it is not right to compare anything.

If Mitsubishi spends more money in usa (tax and sallary) than, the profit GM made, then obviously buying a Mitsubishi is more patriotic. Else, sticking with GM is a much better decision.

Please consider that Mitsubishi is providing some work for America and Pay tax to american goverment not GM (or part suppliers).

It is always bad to use forign products (made out of usa or made by foreign companies) for the country but not for the individuals.

Since late 60, US economy become a service economy: less than half of the us economy is due to productivity. Still usa has a strong economy: we donot know how long it will last tough...

Gas pricess are a good example: Dollar is loosing power... However they manupulate it (increasing interest rates, declaring war to other countries, pressurizing other countires), i think it is a solid truth.

Long story short: Capitalism rules...

If you are interested in helping the American economy buy American. Vehicles made in the US by American federal tax paying corporations. Avoid those made in other countries or those merely assembled in the US of mostly imported parts, like the Camry, by corporations that pay no federal corporate income taxes. ..

mike hunt

u c c wrote:

Of course as long a GM looses a billion dollars a quarter, it isn't going to pay any taxes on profits (since there isn't any profits)

And if the company has no profits?(GM) And exactly how much of the profits actually reach the economy after taxes and corporate graft and so on?

The real determiner should be where it's *made*. The cost of making the vehicle and assembling it far exceeds any profit margin for all but a few cars.

The 3.8 doesn't have the problems that the others do if you maintain the coolant properly. OF course, this means only the 3.8 and a few cars like the Vibe and some of the Caddys are worth considering. (The Vibe because it has a Toyota designed engine that's bulletproof and GM styling and interior instead of Toyota's plastic ick)

Yep. The re-engineered 3.8(3.6 IIRC?) is also more of this same nonsense. Just get something like an Impala with the 3.8 in it and enjoy 150-200K miles before it finally dies.

My car, my sister's, my father and mother's - all span 18 years of LeSabres and PArk Avenues with the 3.8 engine. So far, none of them have had any problems with the engine itself. Tons of sensors and other assorted problems like most cars, but the engine might as well be a Camry or Honda V6, it's so bulletproof.

GM will have huge discounts in about 2-3 months, so wait and save :)

That is a bogus argument. The difference of course is when one buys a vehicle made in the US by American corporation ALL of the cost of the parts and those connect to the building the vehicle are spent in the US and remain in he US, as well as all of the profits that are taxed in the US and the dividends paid to the American stock holders are taxed again by the government.

When one buys a vehicle that only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts, like the Tundra and the Camry, all of the part cost as well as all of the profits and stock holder dividends leave the US and they leave untaxed.

In addition the workers in foreign owned plants receive lower wages and fewer benefits, even though the Camry and Tundra cost more to drive home than those of similar sized and equipped domestic competitors.

IT it your childrens jobs that you are exporting along with the money that leaves the US.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

That is a big IF. Corporate taxes, jut like yours, are based on annual income. ;)

mike hunt

"James C. Reeves" wrote:

Why do we always get the same YA'BUT? Certainly foreign manufactures, that only assemble, in the US spend money in the US. Why would you think domestic manufactures do not spend the same or more? Domestic spend far more in the US than ANY foreign assembler adds to the US economy. Get real

mike hunt

u c c wrote:

What about the "foreign" shareholders? They are many and large.

Don't know about Tundra and Camry, but the vast majority of the Corolla is not only assembled but manufactured in North America. Same with the Hondas built in Alliston Ontario. Engines may be made in Japan - but lots of GM engines came from Brazil too. And lots of so-called GM cars are made entirely in Korea by their Korean subsiiary, DaeWoo. Others by their Japanese partner, Suzuki.

The Toyota workers are very happy to work for Toyota for the wages they recieve, rather than working for GM, Ford, or Chrysler. Here in Cambridge ontario they are VERY well paid.

And Toyota provides many jobs in the parts manufacturing businesses located across North America too. Much rather have Toyota and Honda building here than be buying Japanese manufactured vehicles. At least the "assembler" wages, and the wages of the parts manufacturers are paid here, to local workers.

It is your money spend it were you wish. I wonder what are they teaching in schools today. Your questions should have been asked and answered, in economics 101.. Buy those products that are produced in you own county of parts made in you own country by a manufacture that pays taxes in you own county, if you goal is to help the economy in your own country. THAT is what the Japanese do, we should be as smart. Buying from foreign manufactures that only assembles with lower paid workers or buy only some parts in your country and take the money out of you county tax free, is simply not as good. As to the employees being happy, I'll bet they would be much HAPPIER making the wages and receiving the benefit of a Union shop. LOL

mike hunt

snipped-for-privacy@sny.der.>

They have fought the union fairly effectively for over a decade. Hope they manage to continue in that direction. UAW just makes cars more expensive - they exist more for their own good than the good of the workers. (most unions fall into that category - a bunch of crooks)