Should I buy a GM? or should I jump ship?

This is no different, though. How much IS that tax on the dividends? That's essentially a small percentage of a smaller percentage. IF they make a profit, that is, and IF they don't reinvest it or do other things with the money do dodge the taxes.

Not all foriegn plants are like this, though. Check the UAW website - a few are made with U.S. union labor.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander
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IOn this note, I see a lot more Chinese parts creeping into GM lately. It may count as "domestic" product as ift was assembled in N. America, but the sub-components are more and more from offshore sources.

I don;t see much of this in Toyota and Honda, though, because they have a cultural bias against all Chinese items, unless there's just no other choice. Based upon quality, I'd take outsourced stuff from Taiwan or S. Korea or Indonesia over China anyday.

That's a big difference, and it's showing, especially in Chrysler and Ford. They are cost-cutting with Chinese parts, and the Japanese makers are cost-cutting with Korean parts.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

The foreign assembly plants in the US is just good business and advertising (for them). It is cheaper to box all the parts in contaniners for shipment to the U.S. and then have them assembled in an almost totally automatic plant than it is to ship the assembled vehicles.

Same goes for American cars. They can import the parts that require a lot of manpower a lot cheaper than making them in the U.S.

Reply to
Rich256

Which is my point as well. Where the plant is is what's the biggest factor. Union labor and a big plant - that's an unescapeable few hundred million or more a year in upkeep, salaries, maintainence, transporting materials.... all into the local economy at the lowest levels.(because as we've all seen, trickle-down economics only works IF the rich give their money to the poorer people)

I'd surely buy a vehicle made at NUUMI instead of in Toronto, that's for sure.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

And the labor on parts made outside the U.S. do not contribute to Social Security (a crisis) or income tax. That goes for outsouce jobs as well. I saw a report a couple days ago that the average cost for union labor for GM is about $75 an hour, including medical coverage and pensions.

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China: $2

Also read that GM cost is $1500 per car for health care.

Reply to
Rich256

What is you point? The contention that foreign manufactures provide American jobs is asinine. If American bought a domestic vehicle there would be more workers in domestic plants that pay better and offer better benefits.

If ones goal is to help the US economy then buy only those vehicle made in the US of more than 70% American parts, rather simple concept. The vehicle will have a number one as the first number of the VIN a content label that says the American parts content is at least 70%. Buying anything else help the US less. If more buyers insisted on American made products more manufactures will make their products in the US. As long as consumers are going to accept imports the manufactures will use cheaper import parts, as well, and we will export even more of our children's jobs.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
MikeHunt2

It your money spend it where you wish, but you keep going around in circles If you coal is to help the US economy it would be better for the US economy if you bought one made in 'Detroit' ;)

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
MikeHunt2

snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mailcity.com:

Show me one...

Reply to
Ript

Even though the southern ontario plants (Oshawa) have some of the highest quality ratings of all GMs plants in North America?

Reply to
Brad Clarke

OK, Mike - give me a list of cars that meet your spec. And make sure it is 70% US, not North American parts. Then check every "US BUILT" subassembly for foreighn components - and check the assembly line to see where the manufacturing equipment (welding robots etc) are made.

Also, how do you determine 70%? by parts count, by weight, or by value. If by value, by cost or selling price? Using offshore parts, going by cost you could have less than 25% foreigh content, by count

50%, and by weight 70%.

I strongly suspect you will be hard pressed to give me a long list.

Reply to
nospam.clare.nce

You really do need to visit the UAW website. Seriously. Where the company has its headquarders is only a small part of the much larger equation. An awful lot of "domestic" vehicles aren't actually made in the U.S. anymore.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Given GM's lack of profits and therefore taxes right now, buying a car made in Canada doesn't do a thing for our economy. loose-loose, even though it's an "American" car.

Reply to
Joseph Oberlander

Go visit a Ford, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota, and Honda lot. Check to see where the vehicles are made, and the parts content. I suspect you will have quite the eye-opening experience. For starters, look at the Accord, Camry, Avalanche, Equinox, and Aveo. Then, ask yourself who is REALLY responsible for the export of auto manufacturing jobs!

Reply to
Rich

You keep saying that but it is not factual. 85% of all the vehicles old in the US by GM and Ford are made in the US of over

75% American parts. Look for those with a '1' as the first number of the VIN. On can spend their money where the wish but IF you want to help you own economy the most avoid those with a J, K, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
DustyRhoades

You don't know much about how US corporations are taxed do you? GM still had to pay millions in first quarter estimated income taxes based on the annual expect net income. GM shareholders will pay income taxes on the GM dividends they received as well. Where a corporation has its headquarters means a lot, Toyota for example pays ZERO federal corporate income taxes on the profits it earns in the US

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Reply to
DustyRhoades

The may be your opinion but it is based on the facts. The Accord is one of the few foreign cars actually made in the US of at least 75% American parts.. The Camry on the other hand is only assembled in the US of primarily parts imported from other Japanese manufactures. Honda and Toyota pay no US federal income taxes however. GM and Ford pay federal income taxes and built at least 85% of the vehicle they sell in the US, in the US. If Americans continue to buy more foreign cars, the domestics will have no choice but to source their parts in low cost countries as well to remain competitive regardless of the UAW contract that require 75% American part content.

BUY American if you want jobs to be there for you off spring.

mike hunt

Rich wrote:

Reply to
DustyRhoades

I don't know how you formed this opinion, but it's nonsense. My wife's Explorer has a German engine and French transmission. That Chevy Equinox I pointed out to you has a Chinese engine.

Again, let me ask you who *really* is shipping our jobs overseas. Regardless of who sells what, the foreigners are bringing auto mfg jobs here, while the domestics are shipping them out.

Anyone who buys a Mexican-built Avalanche over a U.S.-built Maxima because of some misguided "buy American!" bug is not seeing the bigger picture here.

Last time I checked, I could buy as much Toyota, Honda, and Nissan stock as I wanted. In fact I'm positive I have all three of their stocks in my 401k portfolio. So, who really benefits when you buy a Mexican-built Chevy? GM stockholders, that's who. The American worker sure as hell doesn't gain anything!

Reply to
Rich

Yet another misconceived conclusion...

Reply to
eastwardbound2003

Here's an idea. Buy only American vehicles that are 20-60 years old. Then suppert the economy by hitting Jegs, Summit, NPD, and Eastwood. Then you damn well where your bux are going and you have a cooler ride to boot.

Reply to
FBR

The US automakers regard this as 'North American' made according to NAFTA.

Reply to
;-p

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