Was supposed to be an Impala rental report... Camry rental report

100W / (746W/HP) is closer to 1/7 or 1/8 HP for a pair of 50W DRLs.

Where are you getting 1 or 2 HP for a car to idle? I would think 10-20 HP would be more realistic. But that is just a wild guess. Aren't you turning the water pump, oil pump, fuel pump, alternator, maybe a fan? I'm just talking out loud - I really don't know the answer.

Side note: I like it when other cars facing me have DRLs when on shady tree lined streets in the daytime. It lets me differentiate them from parked cars. "James C. Reeves" wrote in

Reply to
Joe Blow
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Reply to
Dave

The low beam bulbs are rated at 55W, not DRL. Typically, DRL uses either 18 or 27W bulbs.

According to the IIHS

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DRLs shouldcost each car about $3 per year.

Reply to
Neo

That's because his GP, if it's like my Bonneville, turns on the low beams when the wipers are turned on.

Reply to
Neo

WRONG! GM uses either the parking lights or the low-beam lights with reduced intensity. At least that's how it was with my Alero and is with my Bonneville and my Intrigue.

Reply to
Neo

And my Grand Am.

Reply to
Drumstick

| > During low light daytime conditions, high beam DRLs (as used by GM, BMW, | > and Toyota) can be annoying. | | WRONG! GM uses either the parking lights or the low-beam lights with | reduced intensity. At least that's how it was with my Alero and is | with my Bonneville and my Intrigue.

Earlier Saturn's and today's Monte's, Impala's, LeSabres (I could go on) use high beam DRL implementations. There was a time when GM used high beam implementation on it's mid-sized SUV's which was really a problem since the highbeam lamps are much higher off the ground in the 1st place in those cases.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Heck I used to drive VW's back in the 60's that had 1300cc engines with only a total of 35 horsepower and could still run those puppies up to

75-80MPH...although it took all day to get it there and going down hill helped. :-) Somebody here probably knows, but I doubt seriously that a engine would require anything close to 10HP just to idle...even to drive the water pump. Fuel pumps and fans are usually electric these days...so the drain they cause would be "felt" in the HP needed to "turn" the alternator. If you have a well at your house...what HP electric motor is used to pump your well water? what HP electric motor is used to run the bower on your home furnace? Likely under 1HP each....barely over 1HP for both, I'd bet

| | Side note: I like it when other cars facing me have DRLs when on shady | tree lined streets in the daytime. It lets me differentiate them from | parked cars. |

Here is a tip. The cars that are moving are the ones that are not parked. If you can see the parked ones when they don't have their lights on, you can surely see the the moving ones without lights too. At least I can.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

They do it because the GM marketing types have told them that and they mistakenly believe it. I remember reading the marketing hype for the 2003 Mailbu I bought "...your new Malibu features auto headlight control, so you never have to turn on the lights..." What a crock (as I found out after I bought the car!) Of course, I wonder how those same marketing types would explain the reason the light switch even exists if the "auto" system was really as good at what they say it is supposed to be.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

"Neo" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com... | Dave wrote in message news:... | | > I have friends who are just like you. Have never touched the light | > switch. This is dangerous. Many times in rain, fog, snow the light | > sensor doesn't turn the lights on when they really should be on so that | > others can see you FROM ALL SIDES, not just the front. | | That's because his GP, if it's like my Bonneville, turns on the low | beams when the wipers are turned on.

The GP _may_ not do what your Bonneville does...dunno. The "auto" lighting system on some GM vehicles are not set up to activate with the wipers....although that would be better if they all were. However, do you turn your wipers on when it's just foggy? Maybe sometimes. But often wipers aren't needed for pure daytime fog situations...especially once the windshield is warm and the tiny droplets no longer condense on the surface of the windshield. So, therefore, full lights are still NOT necessarily activated by the auto system and they still need to be turned on manually (by the switch...if many GM owners even know where their light switch is since most of them never use it). The switch was put there for a reason. And that reason is that even GM knows that the much touted "auto light control" system really doesn't work correctly all of the time (or they would have eliminated the switch altogether). So, if you aren't using the switch when you need to then you're probably driving illegally in some situations (like daytime foggy conditions). Yes, GM has made lighting control more, shall we say, interesting for the vehicle operator. Just what we need, _more_ confused drivers out there!

The other reason the lights need to be turned on manually is because the full lights may/can cycle on and off several times during a foggy daytime trip to your destination. There isn't a good indication/feedback from the car that this is happening (when it happens), except you _may_ notice the odo/radio/trip computer display go bright and dim and bright and dim a few times during your trip (or you may not notice). The visual queue from the DRL's reflecting back in the fog can give the impression that the headlights are still on when they are not...so that may not help the driver get a clue either. There isn't a "chime" or any other "lighting mode" indicator one could check. SO, the only way you can be assured 100% that the lights will be on and stay on when it's foggy is to turn them on manually.

Auto light control when coupled with DRLs really create confusion for many drivers in these situations in my opinion. I know what is happening (obviously, since I've explained it from personal observation and experience), but observation also tells me that that isn't typically the case out on the roads. Lots more of GM brands compared with other brands on the roads without tail/marker lights on in daytime fog...because GM owners _truly believe_ that they "never have to touch the light switch"! And, my friends, that is patently false.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Yes (not necessarily GM cars, though earlier GM cars with DRLs apparently did not have the automatic headlamp feature).

If I were driving a car with annoying DRL (high beam or turn signal), I'd just turn on the headlamps all the time while driving. If I were driving a car with non-annoying DRL (low beam, or separate white lamp in front like the newer GM large pickups), I'd use the headlamp switch like in any non-DRL car (turn on at night, or in rain, fog, etc.).

Reply to
Timothy J. Lee

Ever see a 1996+ Saturn SL/SW? Or similar year S-10 pickup or Blazer?

Parking lamp DRLs aren't very good either, since they can give false signals. A quick glance (not as long as the blinking time) at the front of a GM car shows the left turn signal on. Is it (a) signaling left (no DRL), (b) not signaling (right DRL burned out), or (c) signaling right (has DRL).

The best DRL setup would be separate white lights in front like in the newest generation GM large pickups and associated SUVs. Although they seem to have chosen a bulb type that burns out quickly (perhaps good for those who don't want DRLs, but those people can just remove the bulbs if they don't want DRLs in the first place).

Reply to
Timothy J. Lee

Many DRL's ARE the low beam bulbs operating at 80%-100% power...few are actualy separate lamps.

| According to the IIHS |

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DRLs should| cost each car about $3 per year. Sure, 3$. I have a bridge to sell you....

I would be interested then to have explained to us then that, IF the additional consumption is this insignificant, why prey tell, did GM go to all the trouble and expense to petition the EPA (and will approval) for the EPA to test their vehicles for the purpose of establishing the EPA mileage ratings with the DRLs disconnected. Hint: They wouldn't have done that if they didn't already know that they have at best a "measurable" impact and at worse (and most likely) a_significant_ one that would have cause them to not meet CAFE requirements. Wake up people!

Reply to
James C. Reeves

Most of the newer 2000+ GM vehicles utilize the high beams (electrically placed in series for reduced brightness) as the DRL's.

-- markwb

2001 Bonneville SLE

Reply to
markwb

Fractional HP motors, most are less than one horse.

-- markwb

2001 Bonneville SLE

Reply to
markwb

Exactly...

| > Heck I used to drive VW's back in the 60's that had 1300cc engines with | only a | > total of 35 horsepower and could still run those puppies up to | > 75-80MPH...although it took all day to get it there and going down hill | helped. | > :-) Somebody here probably knows, but I doubt seriously that a engine | would | > require anything close to 10HP just to idle...even to drive the water | pump. | > Fuel pumps and fans are usually electric these days...so the drain they | cause | > would be "felt" in the HP needed to "turn" the alternator. If you have a | well | > at your house...what HP electric motor is used to pump your well water? | what | > HP electric motor is used to run the bower on your home furnace? Likely | under | > 1HP each....barely over 1HP for both, I'd bet | >

| > | | > | Side note: I like it when other cars facing me have DRLs when on shady | > | tree lined streets in the daytime. It lets me differentiate them from | > | parked cars. | > | | >

| > Here is a tip. The cars that are moving are the ones that are not parked. | If | > you can see the parked ones when they don't have their lights on, you can | > surely see the the moving ones without lights too. At least I can. | >

| >

| >

| |

Reply to
James C. Reeves

I've never had a car with DRL like that. How MANY do you mean?

I see. How about some Math then?

My cars use 18W bulbs, that's 36W or 0.05HP. A car usually uses about

20HP to go at a constant speed of 60MPH. Taking only this situation as an example, DRL would then account for about 0.25% of the fuel consumption. Now, I don't drive at 60MPH all the time, urban driving lowers my mileage even more, but out of my annual gas cost of $1500, $3.67 would be due to DRL.

QED

You and your crusade against DRL reminds me of Nader: sure the Corvair had a oversterring characteristic, but so did the Porsche 911, VW Bug, etc. All in a while forgetting about the horrible VW Bus, which had a not only oversteering, but also an overturning behavior and no protection in frontal crashes. But VW isn't American, so what was Nader's point going after it?

Your quest in vain. Just stop buying GM and period. Your dollars are your best speech, not all this nuisance in this newsgroup.

Reply to
Neo

Nearly all but the large trucks/SUV's OR the ones with the turn signal DRLs. The rest (which is probably over 90%) have DRLs that are using either the low beam bulbs (at 80% to 100% voltage) or high beam bulbs (at 60% to 70% voltage).

It would be nice it it were true if DRLs were typically separate lamps designed for it's unique purpose...but it ain't so.

| Your quest in vain.

I disagree.

| Just stop buying GM and period. Your dollars are | your best speech, not all this nuisance in this newsgroup.

I have...and I sold my positions in GM stock as well.

As with the last 8-9 times now in this NG...I didn't bring up this topic. ;-) But, I will sure support others that do bring it up though. I've heard rumor that some of the newly designed GM vehicles are starting to show up with DRL disable capabilities, although I haven't checked it out for myself. If GM's competitors have been providing a DRL off switch, GM may be listening since chasing customers away over something that has as simple of a "cure" as this (give the customer the choice...radical concept...huh?) sure isn't good business and sure isn't a good way to make money for the stockholders.

Reply to
James C. Reeves

And if you do the math, even 100W lamps burning 24 hr a day 365 days per year only take 26 gallons of fuel energy. The gas they use is really insignificant.

Reply to
SSTEIN2

Nope. My Bonneville uses the parking lights for DRL. They look like the low-beams, but they're not. The low and the high beams are in the reflector beside the parking lights.

I'd dare say that being DRL your pet peeve you think that they're all at 100% high-beams! :-)

Well, they were so in the last 3 GM cars I've had over the past 5 years: from the Alero '99 I bought in '98 to the Bonneville '02 in '01...

Just stop asking that to the mirror and look around for a change. :-D

Good. Now just go...

The arm-chair CEO spoke. :-)

Lighten up...

Reply to
Neo

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