Porsche + VW =?

They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.

I hope it's more than that!!!!

Daimler Chrysler is also taking a stake in VW. The *square-heads* are afraid of VW becoming the target of a hostile takeover by a foreign auto firm. VW was protected from hostile takeover by a law conveniently called the VW Law, but Brussels declared it to be counter to the free flow of money, goods, & services within the EU.

And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne, and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial interest to keep VW alive. Emanuel

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2003 BMW 325i Black/Black 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for a publicly traded corporation.

:>John Doe II wrote: :>> Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your :>> tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car company? :>> :>They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.

: And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family : has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one : of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so : many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne, : and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial : interest to keep VW alive. : Emanuel

Well... remember that Piech (former VW CEO) is a Porsche...

Why? Because Porsche has fared so poorly?

The company is publicly traded but the only significant shareholders are family and close friends, as far as I know. And I think that's the wrong way to look at it anyway. The 90s gave Porsche AG a scare - they want to remain an independent company and until the Boxster they were in danger of going under or being bought out by someone bigger, the way Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar, Skoda, and Aston Martin were. Almost every move they've made since the recovery has been to lower cost to increase profits and improve their position to the point where a few bad years doesn't risk losing the company bearing the family name. Buying 20% of VWAG lets them affiliate with a larger company on their own terms, and it's a company the family has pretty much in full-nelson Emanuel

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2003 BMW 325i Black/Black 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

No, because VW (except for Audi and a few other bits) is in a hopelessly hypercompetitive market which is very unlikely to be significantly profitable for the foreseeable future.

:>Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for :>a publicly traded corporation.

: The company is publicly traded but the only significant : shareholders are family and close friends, as far as I know. And I : think that's the wrong way to look at it anyway. : The 90s gave Porsche AG a scare - they want to remain an : independent company and until the Boxster they were in danger of going : under or being bought out by someone bigger, the way Ferrari, : Lamborghini, Jaguar, Skoda, and Aston Martin were. Almost every move : they've made since the recovery has been to lower cost to increase : profits and improve their position to the point where a few bad years : doesn't risk losing the company bearing the family name. Buying 20% of : VWAG lets them affiliate with a larger company on their own terms, and : it's a company the family has pretty much in full-nelson : Emanuel : -- : 2003 BMW 325i Black/Black : 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

You sure it was the 90's? Seems to me the 70's were nearly a disaster for them and the 70's buried Ferrari, Lancia and most of the other independents..

Yes, there are a lot of ties between the two families (and brands), after all Ferdinand Piech is the son of Louise Piech, Ferdinand Porsche's daughter... but that's not the point. The point is that, even if the rumors of that stock operation have been dismissed, the Panamera will most probably be a sister car to the new Lamborghini Espada, that, as you know, is owned by Audi...

Take care!

They've had a bad patch during every decade :). In the 70s, the fuel crisis hurt them, like most other high performance sellers. In the 80s, the 944 pulled their asses out of the fire for a few years, and then Black Monday hit and sales dropped off again. Wiedeking greenlighted the Boxster and the 993, which pulled a rabbit out of a hat, but he's the first CEO to decide "This shit can't keep happening." Since then, he's worked to increase profitability by cheaper production methods (making the Boxster/Carrera lines as similar as possible, just-in-time mfg methods, etc) and broadening the market base. He pretty much wants Porsche to be like BMW was in the early 90s; ironic now that BMW wants to be GM. Porsche and all the other sports car companies were too vulnerable to market trends because all of their products were seen as expensive toys. Their customers still have the cash, but their mindset changes and instead of spending $90k on a sports car, they spend $90k on a Range Rover or BMW M5. After all, SUVs and sedans are "practical." With the Cayenne and Panamera, Porsche will have something to sell when it's not en vogue to buy a Boxster or 911. It's already worked -

911 and Boxster sales took a dive a few years ago, but the Cayenne was there to make up the sales. To produce so many model lines means adding capacity or finding a production partner - enter VW. They're already working together on a couple of projects and the only other company the government might allow such a deal with is DaimlerChrysler which 1) is having troubles of it's own and 2) is big enough to turn partnership agreement into takover. Emanuel

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2003 BMW 325i Black/Black 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black

Maybe Porsche wants the too find out why a Veyron can run over a GT?

Hang on, I thought VW was one of the largest car companies in the world. It seems strange for a tiny company like Porsche to "invest" in VW. Please explain.

Big does not mean profitable.