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Re: Vipers and Vettes

wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3233.bay.webtv.net...

What obvious differences do u notice between the 99 C5 Vette and the 96 > Viper ? Pros and cons of each ???

Here's a three way comparison, in my opinion based on cars I've either owned or driven

2004 Corvette Z06: Pros - Currently the best "bang for the buck" of anything I've driven. Seamless power delivery.

usable on a daily basis, and can be your only car. You can race it on Sunday and drive it to work on Monday. For approximately $52,000 it is as fast as an older Viper, faster than many Ferraris, and has the best brakes on any car I've ever tried. Truly an outstanding vehicle with 405 hp, 400 ft lbs of torque, sport seats, and a smooth as butter transmission. Power windows, seats, room for luggage or golf clubs, terrific ergonomics.

Cons - No removable top or convertible top. Sound is too well muffled. The ergonomics are so well mastered that the driver doesn't feel "accomplished" in driving the vehicle because it is so well put together that it is comfortable, and easy to drive at extra-legal speeds. Ultimately less involving because of the competency.

1999 C5 Convertible: Pros - Being able to put the top down. Full convertible. With the top under the "waterfall" hard cover, the lines of the vehicle are beautiful, and in the Pewter I leased, a subtle form of power. Very smooth six speed. The standard suspension was forgiving over road ripples and expansion joints in freeways. Decent power. Full size trunk that could be used even when the top was down. Great road trip car for two. Wine country, anyone? Can also be your daily driver.

Cons - Feels down on power after a while. Really no stronger than an Audi S-8 sedan, or several other daily drivers. Brakes are fine, but not up to Z06 standards. Suspension is fine, but not up to Z06 standards. No exclusivity. The Corvette "wave" could tire out your arm, as there are hundreds of Vettes in your daily drive. Some niggling problems with the engine burning oil, some electronic glitches, the run-flat tires are hard as a brick when cold. Top shows grease marks if open and closed regularly.

1996 Dodge Viper: Let's start with the cons: The convertible top that comes with the car is ugly. The Hennessey aftermarket hard top rattles, shakes, and required two people to get on and off. The side windows have to be lowered into tabs in the doors, and they are fixed in place, with a small opening to reach through to open the doors from the inside, as there is no outside door handle. The trunk is good sized, but if you put the top and side windows into it, there is no space left for luggage. Steering is razor sharp, and many people have spun and crashed their Vipers when they've gone around a corner and put the power on a bit too soon, without being smooth. People stare at your car, tailgate you and zoom by in Camaros to VWs, all smug that they can outdrive you in your Viper. The ride is harsh. There is no ABS, no safety gadgets to take over for you and fix your driving mistakes. The sills below the doors on both sides get hot to the touch. The lumbar support has to be pumped up by hand. It's hard to get into and out of. At stop lights the gear cut cams rattle, and whine, and make the engine sound like it's coming apart. Under acceleration, two people inside the car can't hear each other talk. No cupholders. None. Flimsy door to the glove box. Tires are different sizes so they can't be rotated. Gas mileage is awful. Your feet are offset to the left. The brake and clutch pedals are too close together. The windshield is so low that when the hard top is on, you are looking out a tank slot. New prices are close to twice the cost of a C5, and 80% higher than a Z06.

So why would anyone, much less someone who has owned a C5, and driven a Z06 EVER buy a Viper?

Pros: If you want to DRIVE a 415 hp, 488 ft. pounds of torque, V-10 for less than the entry price of a Ferrari, this is it. Stump pulling torque. And if you are old enough to grin with the memories of when your MGB left you stranded, your TR-6 spun in an intersection, your 383 Mopar powered Plymouth with AFBs , flat spotted tires, and you want to grin every minute behind the wheel, then this might be for you. If you like complaining about how you have to contort to get in, burn your hand getting out, and can't hear anyone speak over dinner, this could be for you. If you are willing to leave the top and side windows at home, and risk being rained on...... If your significant other is willing to have her teeth chipped while the car bangs over expansion joints, and steps out on the curves...........

And so on. This is an extremely involving ride. I recently gave up motorcycles, and this approximates the type of focus that was required to ride sport bikes. You have to stay involved, or the Viper will bite you. And that's what I want from a sports car.

Mind you, I have a sedan with an automatic transmission for a daily driver. I'd never own the Viper as my daily driver, like I did with the Vette. But if you can afford it (and used prices aren't too bad..... the one I bought only had 9000 miles on it despited being a '96) and want to be totally involved with the experience, then the Viper may be for you.

Which is not to say that a competent driver in a Z06 couldn't murder me on a track. Just like in motorycles, the skill of the driver ultimately determines how the vehicle can be used. It is far harder to drive a Viper to its limits than a Vette.

I've also driven some Ferraris, and would be willing to trade the Viper for an F355 Spyder, or a 360. I've owned a couple of 911s over the years- 77 81 82, and drove a 996 recently. I would not prefer a non-turbo modern 911 based Porsche over either a Z06 or a Viper.

How does this match up to other people's experiences?

Reply to
REInvestments
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Viper/Corvette vs. Porsche/Ferrari = McDonalds vs. Outback Steak House.

Reply to
Paddington

convertible

competency.

Which of the vehicles have you owned or driven, and why do you come to your overly brief conclusions, for whatever they mean? For instance, I've driven a Ferrari Boxer 12 cylinder back in the day, and I would equate that car as being very similar in feel to the 96 Dodge Viper.

On the other hand, I wouldn't equate the F355 to either of the above. I think the Boxer is more like the Viper than the F355, for instance.

Reply to
REInvestments

That's a bit "Apples & Oranges" - assuming you are talking about camparing the 1980's 512 BB with a 96 Viper.

Reply to
Iain Miller

I owned a 95 Corvette for two years, finally sold it after it left me on the side of the road for the third time in nine months. Had many other numerous problems with it, that along with the poor build quality/rattles made it a disappointing ownership experience. Nice power, little else. I know the C5 is what you mentioned and I did test drive one. It was an improvement, but I still wouldn't make the switch back to GM.

I sold the Corvette and ended up with a 1991 Ferrari 348 TB which was a gem, one which I wish I would have kept. It was just leaps and bounds more the sports car than my Corvette; More exciting, better performance, better fit and finish, better quality, and to my surprise it was very reliable. Of course, it was expensive to service...but that was easily forgotten as soon as I turned the ignition key.

Never driven a Viper. Talked to a Viper owner once at the local track, said he loved the car for its performance but wasn't going to keep it much longer as it was already developing squeeks/rattles and the engine life was only between 20-50k. I found that hard to believe, but shortly after R&T did a used car buyers guide on the early Vipers and stated clearly that engine rebuilds were common with as little as 20k miles.

I've owned a BMW M6 for almost 15 years now. This has been my work car and I've put over 170k on it. Despite its age, it may as well be new in the way it looks, runs and drives. I've experienced no major breakdowns and it's never let me stranded. I also owned a Porsche 944 for five years, that was just as reliable and a real joy to drive. This summer I might be looking into a Boxster or a used 996, preferably a Carrera4. I test drove a Boxster S in August and simply loved everything about the car, from the crisp handling to the sound of the boxer engine, mix that with its reliability, quality and the fun factor and IMO its one of the best cars that can be had for under $50,000.

Looking back at all the cars I've owned and driven, the Ferrari is the most memorable. There are nights I still lay in bed, thinking about, missing that old 348. The Ferrari had soul, charisma and passion in spades....and I didn't realize this until after it was gone. As the old saying goes, you never know what you had until it's gone.

Reply to
Paddington

Thanks for the explanation. Mostly I agree. I doubt I'll have the Viper permanently, because I'm sure I'll become too lazy to work that hard over time.

Of all the marques, I still find the Ferrari to have the most allure, but if I'm going to park an "exotic" in a parking lot, and walk away, I'm a lot more comfortable doing that with a Viper or Corvette, than with a Ferrari. My 911s ranged in mileage to about 130,000 miles, and my mechanic (Tom Amon of T&D Porsche- Campbell) said he had seen many 911 engines with 250,000 miles on them with no significant problems. I'm hoping that the Dodge can go 100,000 miles with no major problems, and I'll take any links you have on the problems at 50,000 that anyone experienced with the Viper.

I prefer the 328 to the 348, and the 355 to either of them, and to the 360, and I know you can get reasonable deals on the 348. Why not just buy another one, if that was where your passion lay? I've never heard anyone say that they hated their Ferrari, except for maintenance and repair costs. Pretty remarkable acceptance level. Sort of like my former Ducati motorcycles. Not the fastest, not the best, but certainly the most beloved.

For the time being, I'm pleased with an old time American muscle car in a Batman suit (mine's black with silver stripes, and I'm no kid). Plus if it keeps me from killing myself on my former Suzuki GSXR 1000 K3 by making "cages" interesting, then it is worth the price of admission. : - )

Reply to
REInvestments

Hey! please don't compare my Porsche to Outback Freeking Steak House, I think it's a little better than that.

Paul, 84 928, (just went street racing with the kiddies in their massively modified acuras and mustangs, then had a nice cost-benefit talk with them.)

Reply to
Bernard Farquart

Hmmmmmmmmm ..........and I thought this was a Porsche forum.

Reply to
Steve

You're dumber than you look...

Reply to
Kerry for President

No, he really was reading it in a Porsche forum. So, how do you know how dumb he looks? You must have magical fairy powers.

Reply to
Bernard Farquart

In this Porsche NG I, for one, could care less about Vipers and Corvettes. But since you asked I have driven a C4 and a friend's C5. Nice cars, lots of V8 grunt. Build quality not up to my 2002 Carrera, but the 5.7 liter C5 does 0-60 and the 1/4 mile about the same as my 3.6 liter six banger. The C4 felt slower.

While I didn't run either Corvette hard enough to give their brakes a real test, the Carrera's brakes are hard to beat. The Corvette brakes felt good, but I like the pedal feel of the Carrera better (which may be nothing more than being used to it). With its rear weight bias the Carrera takes more time to get used to driving toward the limit. I think the same driver would feel comfortable approaching the limits sooner in the Corvette due to the front engine and more even weight distribution.

Haven't driven a Viper.

I'll check with my friend and see if he needs a ride back from the Chevy dealership when he drops off the C5 for the recall.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

Again.....let me elaborate. I don't understand why this was cross posted to alt.Porsche news group and BTW Mr. "Kerry for President" I would imagine your a Dodge owner?

My wife and dogs find me quite attractive FWI.

Reply to
Steve

My dogs also find me attractive...as long as I'm making them dinner...

Reply to
Diode

HAHAHAHAHAHA Sorry Steve, Lol, you coulda left the dogs outa' this man!

Reply to
Buckshot

...And what, other than impenetrable ignorance, compels you to further crosspost it and everything to alt.autos.ferrari, et al.?

My _what's_ a Dodge owner?

Reply to
Kerry for President

Completely different sense of power delivery in the three that I've owned

77, 81, 82 and the few 993s and 996s that I've been in. Much less torque, much less horsepower. Great handling, beautifully built, last forever. But not the stump pulling torque of the large V-8s, or V-10s.
Reply to
REInvestments

I cross posted it in the beginning when I was considering which sport car to buy between the 993, the Z06, the S-8 Audi, and the Viper. I've since purchased the Viper, and probably the cross posting isn't as relevant. And I have no idea how the thread got hijacked for non-automotive material.

Reply to
REInvestments

So how do you like the Viper so far? I had one a few years ago. I Lemon Lawed it after 1.5 years of having it as my daily driver and got a C5. I find myself letting my wife drive the C5. Although it's been a great car, it's boring to me compared to the Viper. But the new Viper seems as refined as the Vettes are. Is it still wild like the previous version?

Reply to
Steve Horrillo

And they taste just like chicken.

Reply to
<Hobbes

Nice save, and almost back on topic :)

Reply to
MeatballTurbo

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