The Cayman, Porsche's Frankenstein!

Not to mention that their "list" price is $59K...which is @ $10K less than the base price of my 2000 Carrera. Heaven knows what they'll really cost with power seats, etc. A pretty expensive 2-seater.

No doubt. They claim that they're pricing the Cayman, between the Boxster S and the base 911. I'm not a marketing major or even a sales guy, but last I checked, there's isn't a hell of a gap (price wise) between a Boxster S and a base 911.

This came from Porsche's US website:

Sports coupé with a new boxer engine extends the Porsche range

Stuttgart. Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart will be launching the new Cayman S on November 26, 2005. This sporty two-seater, based on the Boxster series, boasts a newly developed six-cylinder boxer engine with a capacity of 3.4 liters and an output of 295 bhp (217 KW). The assembly delivers an impressive performance: high and constant propulsive power at lower and medium speeds. The sports car's maximum speed is 275 kilometers per hour. With manual transmission and a centrally placed engine, the Cayman S accelerates from zero to 100 km/h in 5.4 seconds.

Equipped with Porsche's VarioCam Plus system for variable intake camshaft control and valve timing, the Cayman S has a torque of 340 Newtonmeters with between 4,400 and 6,000 rpm. The VarioCam Plus system was previously reserved for the 911 series. Power transmission is executed via a six-speed gearbox with short, precise shifting travel, which was taken from the Boxster S and further developed. The familiar five-speed Tiptronic S automatic transmission is also available on request, and has rocker switches in the steering wheel spokes for a sports gear shifting operation. The Tiptronic S transmission was refined specifically for the sports coupé, receiving a new electronic and hydraulic control unit.

At first sight, the Cayman S looks likes a typical Porsche sports car. At the same time, however, its autonomous design ensures that it stands out against the Boxster and 911 Carrera. The new front is accentuated by oval main headlamps and distinctive air inlets.

The fog lights integrated in the outside air inlets underline Porsche's current design philosophy. The low-lying upper windshield sill and the pronounced roof profile accentuate the unique and dynamic front view.

The characteristic silhouette of the Cayman S owes itself to the newly designed coupé line with a long wheelbase, a rear end that falls away gently and side windows that perpetuate the dynamic contours of the sill area. The model's rear view is defined by a large tailgate, powerfully sweeping fenders and an automatically extending wing. The distinctively styled dual exhaust outlet is located centrally below the fenders. The tailgate has a large upward opening width for loading the 260-liter trunk. The trunk, in conjunction with the front luggage compartment (150 liters) and numerous additional storage compartments, ensures that the two-seater also has high practical value.

The aluminum chassis with a large track emphasizes the sporty, dynamic appearance of the vehicle, which is fitted as standard with 18-inch tires. In combination with Porsche Stability Management (PSM), also a standard feature, the chassis sets a benchmark in the area of driving dynamics and active driving safety. Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) can be ordered as a option. This system lowers the body ten millimeters closer to the ground and automatically adjusts the suspension ratings to the given road conditions. The driver can select the Normal or Sport programs via a button in the center console.

The basic price for the Cayman S is 50,300 euros. The vehicle costs

58,529 euros in Germany including value added tax and country-specific requirements

Cheers for now

SimonC

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In news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, Steve Travis decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

The Cayman is for people who're scared of the handling of a proper 911.

Probably the same people who *still* think a 911 will throw them backwards through the nearest hedge.

The Boxster S base price is $53,100, the Carrera is $69,300. Maybe in your world $16,200 isn't a hell of a gap, but it is for most folks.

: Probably the same people who *still* think a 911 will throw them backwards : through the nearest hedge.

What! That doesn't happen anymore? I'm appalled!

Well, it's still possible, but the limits are much higher, especially with electronic aids like stability control and traction managment. I'm not one of these Purist people who think that a 911 has to have an air-cooled flat-six to be a "real" 911, but the GT3 would deifinitely be my preferred model of the range. It's kind of kind of uncompromising, unapologetic, road-eating demeanor and track capability that a real sports car should, and the kind of "drive me right or I'll bite you" attitude a 911 (or any proper track car) should. Not that I think the 997 Carrera and Carrera S are half-assed sports cars, but at some point, a sports can become so civil, so friendly and so soft around the edges that it's less a sports car. I like the Boxster S quite a bit, but there's a new Lotus Elise up the street from me and it's looking mighty tempting.

: No doubt. They claim that they're pricing the Cayman, between the : Boxster S and the base 911. I'm not a marketing major or even a sales : guy, but last I checked, there's isn't a hell of a gap (price wise) : between a Boxster S and a base 911.

I believe it was a year or so ago when they had discussed a Boxster Hardtop prototype in Panorama and raved how well it outperformed the 911 because of engine placement.

Now, they just need to put the GT3 motor in the Cayman and offer it as a Cayman S.

Although the 911 can easily hand about 90% of the world's other sports cars their respective asses in terms of track ability, there's little argument that a mid-engined layout is superior to all other types, hence the reason the world's best race cars: prototypes, GT1s, and Formula 1 cars, among others, are mid-engined. But Porsche has been on-and-offing about a Boxster based coupe since the original model was introduced in 1997. I remember seeing spy pictures of a hardtop Boxster in 1999 running with (according to which report you read) a turbocharged motor displacing somewhere between 2.5 and 2.7 litres. Now that they've gotten their act togethor and introduced it, it seems an almost non-sequitor addition to the lineup and, IMO, causes one to ask several questions about if Porsche management is as clever as they probably need to be.

The 295 Horsepower car WILL be the Caymen S. A less powerful version, probably with 250 or so horsepower will debut later. Frankly I think they've completely fudged their model seperation. I'd line the engines up as such:

3.5 litre flat six, 295 Horsepower - Boxster/Caymen 3.5 litre flat six, 325 Horsepower - Boxster S/Caymen S Then put an 8-cylinder displacing 4.0-4.5 litres and making 375-400 horsepower in the Carrera, offer a widebody version with stiffer suspension and bigger wheels and tires as Carrera S, and add a turbo version with 500-550 horsepower. Viola!

...or maybe it's for people who want BETTER handling than the "proper" 911. These are the often the same people who understand that though the 911 is Porsche's most popular car, it's not necessarily Porsche's best car.

You will note that the Cayman S has lapped the Nurburgring faster than the standard 997, even though it is down on power and slower. And Walter Rohl was driving both cars so we can safely assume that he was not backing off in the 997 because he was "scared" of its handling characteristics. What does that tell you about the comparative handling?

Being a Brit, you might also note Autocar magazine's tag line on the Carerra GT:

"Outrageous performance and a truly remarkable chassis make the Carerra GT feel like a 600bhp Boxster. The most complete supercar ever."

In the ad campaign for the 993 Porsche claimed to have cheated the laws of physics. Cute ad, but its just an ad, not the truth.

It's the best car for those of us who are too tall to fit comfortably into a Boxster and take the time to learn and understand the handling dynamics of the rear engine layout.

Porsche lists the Cayman S at 5.1 seconds to 60 MPH and a 171 MPH top speed. The base 997 is listed as 4.8 seconds and 177 MPH. Remember, this is the high performance variant of the Cayman line against the base Carrera. Also remember the 'Ring is some 13+ miles long, with some 73+ bends, so the small straight line speed advantages of the 997 is more than balanced by the Cayman's ability (one would think) to generate higher lateral acceleration through and exit speeds from all those bends. I've never seen actual lap times for the two cars posted; the rumors I've heard had the Cayman S only a second or two faster than the base 997. Pretty safe bet the Carrera S skins the little croc on the same course.

And if the road was slick, the 997's rear weight bias would make its oversteer tendency easier to exploit. As close as the two cars apparently are, the 997 might be quicker under adverse conditions.

And Walter Rohl

It tells me if you take a lighter, more neutral handling car with nearly the same straight line speed capability as the 997 to a course that places a premium on the ability to carry speed through and off the corners and it is only a couple of seconds faster after 13+ miles, then the 911 is still Porsche's best car after all.

Wait until you ride in/drive one. A friend's daughter's boyfriend has one - very fun car to drive, exceptional handling. And after about ten minutes in it the comfort concessions outweigh the fun factor. The car is optimized for performance and it doesn't treat tall people (6' 2") kindly. Even if you're short, the max-performance ride is still the same - you'll want to be sure your roads are billiard-table smooth.

I'm waiting until I can afford to find a proper old skool SWB aircooled

911 "idiot killer". I want a car that I can respect.

Very nearly my point exactly.

1. Yes, a lighter better balanced car will perform better in the twisties. Which is precisely what we want. Remember, we Americans excel at straight line acceleration and can indeed provide significantly better straight line acceleration for the $/Euro than Porsche. I'm not paying Ferry's progeny up for a stop light drag racer. I pay for Porsche because it does better in the corners, thus I really want it to do better in the corners.

1. Yes, I did reference track results for the Cayman S versus the standard

911. But still, the Cayman S is slated to be significantly cheaper than the standard 911 and, we all know that Porsche HQ knows that the Cayman/Boxster is a "better" layout than the 911 and has thus downtuned the Cayman so as not to embarrass the 911. (C'mon, be honest here!)

1. Finally, four seconds on the Nurburgring is not a lot for the likes of you and me, but for Herr Rohl it's significant. Give appropriate chassis credit where said credit is due.

You are left with your height. I have heard the height complaint about the Boxster before and I sympathize. I'm a short guy though so I guess that's finally worth something to me.

The 3.4l that powered the first 996 was originally rated at 296 hp, then

300. When Porsche jumped the hp for the 2002 996, they did so by upping the engine to 3.6l. The Cayman S has a 3.4l producing 295 hp, so that doesn't sound like downtuning to me. Porsche rates the 3.6l in the base 997 at 325 hp while the 3.6l in the 2002+ 996 was 320 hp, yet Porsche claims identical top speeds and 0-60 times for both cars, so the 5 hp didn't make any difference with those cars and it probably doesn't with the Cayman S either.

Remember, the Cayman S is the cutting edge performance Boxster suspension and the base 997 doesn't feature the PASM found on the Carrera S. Put the more performance oriented PASM on the base 997 and the Cayman S 2 or 4 second advantage FOR OVER 13 MILES and 73+ bends dries up.

Porsche has produced "better" layouts than the 911 before. The 914,

924/944/968 all featured more even weight distribution than the 911, and they're all extinct. But the evergreen 911 motors on. The car has been in production for over 40 straight years and is simply one of the greatest sports cars ever. Clearly, the rear engine layout has stood the test of time in the marketplace and on the race course. I have a 2002 996 C2 coupe and it's been my experience that most of the folks who knock the 911 have never spent any considerable time in one.

Sorry, but when Porsche's ace driver only manages a 2 to 4 second better lap time over the 'Ring in the highest performance Boxster variant with that "better" layout than the standard performance 997, I'm not running out to my friendly local Porsche dealer to get my deposit in for the Cayman. I had a Boxster loaner when the Carrera went in for rear tires, and it was a delightful car to drive - I'm sure the Cayman S will be more of the same. But for those of us who have a clue as to what to do if the tail starts to move on a 911, there is no substitute.

Yeah, and I don't fit too well in the Hughes 500 series helicopters either......

I really don't think this should be a debate over WHY the Caymen's time is quicker than the 911's, if it had something to do with who's behind the wheel, or if it detracts from the desireability of the 911. In my mind, the bottom line is this: The Boxster and Caymen models obviously have a lot of built-in potential that's not being realized because the gurus at Porsche seem to feel like the 911 needs protecting. If Porsche would drop this idiotic idealogy than we could see a considerablly greater level of performance from the model, which I think is becoming painfully neccesary considering how close the C6 Corvette can come to a new 911 on the track, with a base price around $52,000. Porsche NEEDS a higher performing car at the $45-55k price point, and unless they're willing to seriously consider 8-cylinder motors for the 911s, that's going to mean building a car that can eclipse the 911's performance for less money. I'm not saying I want a Corvette (I still think it's ugly and I still think the interior is it's biggest fault), but there's a lot competiton these days, and Porsche is expected to make or beat par for the course.

Sleeker GT Phwoar wrote: : In article , : snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says... :> Purist people who think that a 911 has to have an :> air-cooled flat-six to be a "real" 911, but the GT3 would deifinitely :> be my preferred model of the range. It's kind of kind of :> uncompromising, unapologetic, road-eating demeanor and track capability :> that a real sports car should, and the kind of "drive me right or I'll :> bite you" attitude a 911 (or any proper track car) should. :> : I'm waiting until I can afford to find a proper old skool SWB aircooled : 911 "idiot killer". I want a car that I can respect.

Hmmm, something like a '67 with a Chevy V8 mounted in it? ;-)

a friend has a very nice '64 XKE with a small block Ford V8... He likes it very much.

and just as a rhetorical question... why not hot rodding a Porsche? They're made in sufficient quantity that it's not sacrilege like chopping up a Cadillac V16 or a Bugatti or Maybach...

Because it's a Porsche, and should command enough respect not to be butchered with an American crate motor.

They're not built in that high a quantity. If you want a muscle car with decent handling, get a C4 Corvette, upgrade the suspension and brake components and throw some bolt-ons under the hood.