Z4 M vs Boxster S vs SLK 55

Really? What journalists?

The Boxster's mid-engine configuration is generally considered to offer better handling characteristics than the rear-engine of the 911 (and I have a 2002 Carrera) since the weight distribution is more equal. While it has been largely engineered out of the 911, the car will still exhibit trailing throttle oversteer if you get into a corner at 11/10ths and lift. If you know what to do at the limit the Carrera is a formidable handler, but the natural reaction of most drivers in this case is exactly wrong.

I had a Boxster as a loaner while the Carrera got tires, and the car is a wonderful handling car. Not as fast as my Carrera, but a very nice ride and hardly a consolation prize. Anybody who tells you so is just kidding themself.

Reply to
Jim Keenan
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Right. That's like saying the only real Mercedes has gull wing doors.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

The only areas MB outdoes Porsche is on the JD Power Initial Quality and Reliability surveys, where Porsche leads or is near the top of the list on both, while MB languishes well below the industry average - MB just racks up so many more black marks. Hell, Ford and Chevrolet are doing better than MB.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

Which is really sad, because Mercedes cars used to be renowned for their build quality and long term reliability. My grandfather owned a

1979 350SD and a 1990 560SEC as new cars - great machines. More revently he's owned a 1998 500SL "Sport" and a newer E500 wagon. I liked both, but the rock solid build isn't there anymore, nor is that "special feeling" the older ones gave off. An uncle recently traded in his E500 sedan and went back to Lexus, apparently his E had to many niggles for his comfort. Hopefully they'll get back on track, but I think the company is spread thin - they're trying (very, very slowly) to fix all of Chrysler's problems while getting back on track with their own products.

Another family member recently purchased a BMW 530i, and while it drives well, it's interior feels cheap, especially the back of the center console where the rear a/c controls are and the door panels - it's cheap plastic that feels much like that of a firend's 2006 Honda Accord. I'm not impressed.

Reply to
Filmophile

My dad had an '88 300 SEL - had a leaky sunroof and needed top end motor work at 65K miles while on a trip. The day after he sold it to the mechanic who had worked on the car most of its life, the tranny suffered a major malfunction. I talked him out of an E wagon in favor of a Lexus RX330 about

18 months ago. I'd be very leery of buying a MB right now.

BMW makes some nice cars, but I haven't seen a 300 series where the door to fender creases weren't off a bit. Saw the same on a brand new 750iL today...........when we took delivery of our Carrera I went over that car with a microscope - the fit and finish were perfect. Of course, BMW makes about 10 times the number vehicles Porsche does annually, but you'd think they could at least get the fenders on straight.

Reply to
Jim Keenan

Porsche tried to stop making the 911 before but popular demand prevented it.

DAS

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Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

No. The only real Mercedes is always the last model but one...

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Which one was the hairdressers' car?

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

That would be all those three-pointed star cars that can't even surpass Chevrolet and Ford on the JD Power Initial Quality and Reliability surveys..................

Reply to
Jim Keenan

The only time Porsche executives ever gave serious consideration to discontinuing the 911 was when they were developing the 928, thinking that it would eventually replace the Carrera. Unfortunately for Porsche, the 928 never sold real well, partly the by product of it's high price. During the 1980s when the company was nearing bankruptcy, the 911 was the only thing keeping them alive, and it stuck around for a few more years. Enthusiasts certainly love it, but profitability is what;s kept the 911 in the lineup, not demand. Keep in mind that there are many Porsche lovers out there, but only so many who can continue to buy new vehicles for such high cost.

Today, the Cayenne and Boxster sell enough units on their own to finance the company, and the Cayman is almost sure to follow. The compact, mid-engined design of the Boxster and Cayman are inherently superior to that of the 911, which although amazing in it's capabilitites will always be limited by it's rear engined design. Notice that most of the world's best sports cars (Pagani Zonda, Ferrari F430, Ford GT, Lotus Elise, Lamborghini Murcielago and Gallardo, Ariel Atom, etc...) are mid-engined, it's for good reason. Given the same level of suspension tuning and power output that the 911 benefits from, the Boxster and Cayman models would easily surpass the 911 in performance.

I *love* the 911, every model of it they've produced since 1964 (although I have special soft spots for the 964 RS 3.8, 993 GT2 and 996 GT3). It's an icon, an incrediblly well versed automobile, and despite it's flaws, one of the best sports cars in the world. I was on board when Porsche went to liquid cooling in the 996, even while other self proclaimed "purists" were yelling and screaming that the "real" 911 was dead. Nonetheless, 52 years is a long lifespan, and Porsche is facing increasingly stiff competition. The Corvette crawls ever closer in terms of performance and agility to the 911, and although the Porsche will always win for build quality and prestige, that's not always enough.

The company needs to grow beyond pandering to enthusiasts who want to keep the marque locked into the past. They need to be able to look forward, not backward. The rear-engined revolution was well fought, but destined to end. We've proven our point - the layout can work, and work well, even in race cars. All hail the 911, but the 911 is nearly ready to die.

Reply to
Filmophile

Agreed. I think that was the reason Porsche wanted to ditch the 911, knowing very well the limitations of the rear engine. But they have done well with it, as you say.

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Porsche makes several variants of an SUV, soft and hardtop mid-engined two-seaters and is designing a four door front-engined sedan for introduction in 2009 or so. How is this pandering to enthusiasts who want to keep the marque locked into the past?

The 911 is still a formidable vehicle no matter where the engine resides, and market demand is strong. Porsche doesn't lose money on the 911 - its not like they keep it around out of sentiment. I don't think it goes away until market demand goes away,

Reply to
Jim Keenan

"Jim Keenan" wrote

Sadly, on my way back from Hood River, OR to Seattle last week, I saw a small camp trailer (caravan for you EU guys) being hauled by a Cayenne. ;-( The horror, the horror.

FloydR

Reply to
Floyd Rogers

I'm okay with most of what you wrote, but it wasn't the 911 that kept Porsche alive during the 80s - it was the 944. The 944 was the Boxster of its day - an "entry level" Porsche with moderate power - by Porsche standards - and phenomenal handling that sold by the bucket-load. (And if you read the old articles, writers often said that the 944 would outperform the 911 if only it had as much power, the same thing we hear about the Boxster and Cayman today). The 911 was out-selling the 928, but both models combined wouldn't have kept Porsche afloat. Even now, I think I read Porsche sells fewer than 3000 911s a year. The company learned its lesson a decade ago - they can't make a living selling 911s. Accepting this is why they branched out to all the different model lines. But the 911's value goes beyond sales - every model variant generates pages and pages of free publicity in every car magazine on the planet, it's the benchmark car in every comparison road test, and its shape remains the first thing in most people's mind's-eye when they heard the word Porsche. The Cayenne and Cayman don't come close to generating the same ink. Until *that* stops, they'd be crazy to stop producing the 911, despite being able to make something better in their sleep. epbrown

-- "Everybody wants a normal life and a cool car; most people will settle for the car." Chris Titus

2003 BMW 325i Black/Black, 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
Reply to
E Brown

You might be horrified to look up the correct meaning of the word "prestigue". I do not disgaree with the rest of your post but this was an unfortunate choice of words.

Reply to
Richard Sexton

You say that like it's a negative thing. You're referring to the

4 rotor C111, right?
Reply to
Richard Sexton

Reply to
Richard Sexton

Yeah. Chicks dig that shit.

Reply to
Richard Sexton

Not available, but you already knew that. Not really relevant either and you knew that too.

Reply to
Richard Sexton

Hey, I only do old cars and all this is quite academic to me. All I know is from watching the (very) odd "Top Gear" and I was stunned to hear they felt it outdid the boxter in every category and they'd pick that car every time.

Don't shoot the messenger! Take it up with them.

Reply to
Richard Sexton

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