1 millionth Prius sold in the USA

Yes...and the large majority of Honda Accords have timing belts that require periodic replacement to avoid catastrophic engine damage while the Prius does not have a timing belt that requires replacement.

Generally, we are comparing the fuel, maintenance, and repair costs of a Prius to other similar non-hybrid vehicles sold at the same time as the Prius. It is irrelevant whether you would characterize the Prius or the comparable non-hybrid cars as 'modern' or not.

No, it isn't. Tractor batteries, motorcycle batteries, snowmobile batteries, jet ski batteries, ATV batteries, and other similar small lead-acid batteries are also designed to operate in weather extremes. Why in the world would you even think otherwise?

Non-hybrid vehicles all have a transmission that requires periodic servicing. A Prius does not have a transmission.

You throw that out, and yet those two sentences have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

And yes, the Prius absolutely does have a transmission. It's not mechanically the same as what's in a Chevy Malibu (for example), but there is a mechanism to transmit--get it?--power from the power source to the wheels, accommodating the needs of both.

That mechanism sits in the middle, and--here's another problem with your assertion--it requires periodic maintenance.

Why would you say that it *doesn't* require periodic maintenance? Oh, I see--you're under the impression that there's no mechanism that transmits power from the power source to the wheels, accommodating the needs of both.

Well, you're wrong on both counts.

A battery of that size, intended for a tractor that uses a battery that size, is intended for use that does not include weather extremes.

And that's one reason it's so cheap.

If you want to use a battery that's not intended for weather extremes, a battery that was never designed for us in a closed space like the hatch of a Prius, that's your business--but don't use that as the standard for a Prius battery, simply because you need a $30 battery to try to rationalize why the Prius is "inherently better" than anything else.

The "dealer" as you call him stops being a "dealer" after the car is purchased and the service isn't warranty.

The "dealer" as you call him is an independent businessman, competing head to head with every other shop in town.

He sells tires, batteries, etc, etc.

Your vision of the "dealer" is warped.

One requires maintenance...the other does not. That's what we're talking about...

Well, the Prius has what Toyota calls a 'power split device' that uses a planetary gear and pinion gears to drive the wheels with the gas or electric drives but there are no step gears as the Prius has only one 'gear ratio' due to its electric drive. Most importantly, there is no clutch or torque converter in the Prius as there are in non-hybrid vehicles with 'manual' or 'automatic' transmissions as the Prius wheels are always connected to the planetary drive setup. This reduces the mechanical inefficiency and consequent heat generation. As for maintenance, there is no Toyota recommended service interval for the PSD on my Prius although some owners have been concerned about the change in PSD fluid appearance after a certain number of miles. Toyota switched to a new PSD fluid for newer Priuses that may be better suited to the PSD operating conditions. Time will tell.

See above.

Don't know why you keep going off about 'weather extremes' for batteries. Do you think those tractors spend their life in heated garages? I don't know what kind of 'tractors' you're even talking about...a lawn tractor pushing a snow plow or a 2,000 hp diesel tractor pulling a plow? Whatever...you're wrong about their batteries.

The old volkswagen beatle had the battery under the rear seat in the passenger compartment and no one seems to have died from it. There were a few millions of those sold.

Wow...you really like to throw out strawmen here to see what sticks. I suppose I could say that the 'dealer' is not an independent businessman, doesn't compete head to head with other shops, doesn't sell tires and batteries, etc. but ...those are not true and are not even what we're talking about. My comment was that very few people buy tires and batteries from a 'dealer' (and I think everyone knows what a 'dealer' is.) I don't see you actually disagreeing with that comment...just tossing out alternative stuff to argue about. Go for it.

True

False, there is no such thing as "PSD fluid" as Toyota T-IV and WS fluids are both used in other conventional transmissions.

Also the recommendation to change it at 30k for the T-IV in the NHW11 and

60k for the WS in the NHW20 is based on lab analysis not just the visual appearance of the fluid.

"Strawmen"? No. Not at all.

And certainly not out-and-out untruths, like what you do.

dude, this is 2011. That was 1960.

Are you HONESTLY saying that what we did in 1960 is still perfectly good today?

But the real discussion, which you are trying like hell to avoid, is the idea of taking a battery that was intended to be installed and used on a tractor, and claiming that it's perfectly fit to be installed inside in a Prius.

And your only rationalization was that in 1960, we let people do it in a Beetle?

Watch out, your fingernails are bleeding from hanging on so tightly.

So it is your assertion that the mechanism that transmits the power from the engine to the wheels on a Prius never needs maintenance.

Ever.

OK, so why don't you start by telling us exactly what maintenance the Corolla transmission, for example, needs?

So you're saying that the Prius "transmission" (to use a convenient word) fluid never, ever needs changing.

Ever.

Maintenance free.

Dude, I know all about the Prius. I own one, have for 4 years/77K miles, and spent quite a bit of time looking into the entire thing. Some of the tidbits of information you say are entirely correct, but the conclusions you claim are generally completely wrong--because you know lying in the only way to make your case.

Actually you deleted the real discussion which was if small lead-acid batteries were suitable for the 'weather extremes' you keep talking about. I haven't actually suggested that your 'tractor battery' should be installed in a Prius. That was you or someone else.

Minor point, compared to your dissembling here, but the VW beetle was actually sold up until 1979. And yes, those lead-acid batteries were perfectly suitable for installing in the passenger compartment of the VW beetle under the rear seat...or at least I haven't heard of anyone dying from it.

I still don't see you disagreeing with my claim that very few people buy batteries or tires from the dealer.

Not false. I didn't say that the lubrication fluid recommended by Toyota for the Prius PSD was exclusively for PSD use.

Noted...but Toyota is not recommending a fluid change for the 2nd gen Prius at 60K miles.

First, there is no 'engine' that is the source of power in the Prius. There are actually 2 electric motors and one internal combustion engine that all supply power to the wheels. Second, the 'power split device' has no recommended maintenance interval by Toyota. That is the fact, not my 'assertion.'

PLENTY of people buy batteries from the dealer, and dealer service departments have gotten into tires as well.

It's a matter of convenience, and in some cases--I know you won't believe this--the dealership service dept is a quality operation that one prefers over anywhere else.