2008 Prius details announced: lithium-ion and 94 mpg (US)

2008 Prius details announced: lithium-ion and 94 mpg (US)
formatting link

-- NSA: If you know, we know.

Reply to
Jim Higgins
Loading thread data ...

Yeah, but it's a plug-in to an AC outlet option. So maybe they need to have a miles-per-kilowatt designation too?

Plugging into some outlet for maybe $3 a night won't come cheap. Less petrol in the car, but have you gained anything?

B~

Reply to
B. Peg

I haven't done the math myself, but I read somewhere the cost using household electricity was equivalent to gas at .90 gallon.

Reply to
Bill

Soon those of us who are curious can find out.

Bob Wilson

Reply to
Bob Wilson

Then if you top off the batteries at night the electric rates are usually much lower at night.

Reply to
Jim Higgins

I have doubts about the Li-ion battery. Russel Frost of the Prius Owners Group recently wrote to (unnamed) Toyota's National Manager for Advanced Technology Vehicles, and posted parts of her response on

formatting link
(be aware the content will change, so this URL will quickly go stale). She says of Li-ion and plug-in capability: "The extended electric mode in Japan..which locks out the gas engine and uses only the electric motor.. is a system that quickly depletes the battery. With current battery technology, the system can only run for a few minutes. It also depletes the battery charge significantly. If battery power is constantly drawn down to lower levels, then recharged..then drawn down, it significantly reduces the battery life. While there are technically no mechanical issues converting to a plug-in hybrid system, it will need a lithium ion battery. In two years we will see them as a power supply and after that, in five years, as an energy storage device. Based on our testing, the NiMH batteries have no age limit. Lithium ion does have an age-related lifespan. So we won't introduce such a pack until we have all the durability issues worked out as well as costs - - the battery is the most expensive component of the hybrid. In addition, NiMH batteries are not considered hazardous materials, Lithium Ion is a hazmat."

I don't understand the part about a "power supply" at first, then a few years down the road as an "energy storage device." I guess it means Li-ion can be used as a supplement to NiMH to allow plug-in capability (maybe as an option?) and that it is hoped to be a replacement for NiMH in five years. Only a guess.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

Thank you for the info Michael.

Reply to
Jim Higgins

My guess:

Power supply = source for power for the electric propulsion motor in the current Prius design.

Energy storage device = place where electricity is stored, either from the grid (plug-in hybrid) or from a hydrogen power souce (all hydrogen-powered vehicles are really EVs with an on-board generator).

I still would be leary of any 2008 predictions. Toyota's longest lead on the upcoming Prius was for the 2004 model year, announcing it in March/April 2003 at an auto show, for an October delivery (pre-orders didn't start until July). (and 2003 Prius sales plummeted partially because of the announcement...) Speculative 2006 info was only released around May 2005, official info in Nov. 2005 (about when the

2006s started arriving).

I also would be leary of any MPG predictions, as that would really depend on the test course used to estimate MPG, and the type of gallons used (US or Imperial?). for example:

US 2005 EPA ratings are 60MPG city, 51MPG highway, 55MPG combined. For comparison units: City = 3.9l/100km or 72MPG Imperial or 25.5km/l Highway = 4.6l/100km or 61MPG Imperial or 21.7km/l Combined = 4.2l/100km or 66MPG Imperial or 23.4km/l

formatting link
Canada 2005 OEE ratings are 71MPG city, 67MPG highway, but that's Imperial gallons. The ratings are also listed as 4.0l/100km city and

4.2l/100km highway. For comparison units: City = 59MPG (American) or 25.1km/l Highway = 56MPG (American) or 23.7km/l
formatting link
UK 2005 VCA ratings are 56.5MPG urban (cold), 67.3MPG extra urban, and 65.7MPG combined, again Imperial gallons. For comparison units: urban (cold) = 47MPG (American), or 5.0l/100km urban (cold), or 20.0km/l extra urban = 56MPG (American), or 4.2l/100km, or 23.8km/l combined = 55MPG (American), or 4.3l/100km, or 23.3km/l
formatting link
982 Japan 2005 using the 10-15 cycle is (if my Japanese translation is right) 35.5km/l or 33.0km/l depending on option grade. That's 2.8l/100km or 83US MPG or 100 Imperial MPG, and 3.0l/100km or 77 US MPG or 93.2 Imperial MPG. I do note a OnMouseOver note that's something about 30.0km/l though...
formatting link
The difference is in the governmental test methods to derive the fuel economy figures. You can get some pretty graphs of many of the different tests here:
formatting link
BTW: handy online converter site:
formatting link
Reply to
mrv

Ah - that makes more sense.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.