BMW's going hybrid.

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perfect sense to me. Why wouldn't anyone who wants superior performance with lower overhead follow Toyota's lead?

Reply to
Was Istoben

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Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, then go for it.

Just don't turn the car over - those upward opening doors would be a problem.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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**Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest that the trend will reverse anytime soon.
**Sure. BMW did't build it for ultimate practicality. It is a concept car.
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

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> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about the >> fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel savings. >> If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, then go for it. > > **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? How > about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, is that you > don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: Petrol prices are in an > upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest that the trend will reverse > anytime soon.

Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than petrol, people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in preference to petrol.

Petrol prices might rise in the short term, but the effect will be self correcting.

I consider it unlikely that petrol prices could rise high enough to offset the extra capital costs of a hybrid car over the life of the vehicle. While a vehicle with low usage will last longer, and therefore be subject to a greater risk of higher petrol prices, the longer use of the extra capital also increases the capital cost.

Overall, I think I'll stand by my point.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about the >>> fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, then >>> go for it.

Sylvia,

Look up the amount of biodiesel and/or ethanol that can be produced per acre. Look up the number of acres of tillable land on the planet. Multiply those numbers. Look up the annual consumption of oil. Compare that to your product.

Replacing oil with biodiesel and ethanol is possible, you only have to give up your mean and vegetables.

Reply to
Was Istoben

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>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about the >>> fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, then >>> go for it.

**Nope. It doesn't work like that on this planet. We have an ever-increasing market for a product whose supply is dwindling. Therefore, prices MUST rise. The only thing to prevent this price rise is an alternative fuel source. There is no practical alternative which can be put into place within 10 years. Bio-Diesel is bullshit. Well, unless we all decide that we don't need food anyway. Bio-Diesel has it's place, but it is not for most transport.
**Again: You are predicting the future. Whilst oil prices will undergo fluctuations, the clear TREND is up. I sure don't know how much it will be next year. As for the 5 year price, that is far less certain.

While a vehicle with low usage will last longer, and therefore

**I suggest you study oil prices.
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

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>>>>>

Biodiesel can be produced using algae, and doesn't require tillable land.

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Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about the >>>> fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, then >>>> go for it.

Biodiesel produced from algae doesn't displace food production.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

The history of petrol pricing is the history of rises *and* falls, and it has done so significantly very recently. Petrol may be 2 bucks per litre in

5 years time, and it may be 2 cents more expensive than it is now. No one can say with any degree of certainty, but one thing that is remarkably clear is that hybrid cars make absolutely no economic sense whatsoever.

-- Regards, Noddy.

Reply to
Noddy

Well then that makes 2 of you..the rest of the world begs to differ, so where does that leave you standing? :)

Reply to
Lu R

**Nope. Since the early part of last century, the trend has been clearly up. Like real estate and shares, there have been short term falls, but the overall trend is abundantly clear. The recent financial crisis precipitated a substantial fall. It is now continuing it's up trend, established decades ago.

and it

**I sure hope you don't invest in shares the same way. Petrol *may* be 2 Bucks a Litre in 5 years. More likely, it will be significantly higher. Demand from China and India is increasing rapidly. This will cause prices to rise. Supply and demand and all that.

No one

**Perhaps not now. Perhaps not ever. I would not put money on it though. There's a reason why Diesel/electric locomotives are popular. Think of it as a big hybrid, capitalising on the energy density of oil, combined with the huge torque available from electric motors. The car manufacturers will continue to muck about with hybrids and other alternatives, because that is what many buyers want. Governments are mandating zero emission technologies in various places, so there will be a drive to produce alterntive powered vehicles. Hybrids may or may not be part of the mix.
Reply to
Trevor Wilson

The rest of the world?

Hybrids are the *lowest* volume selling type of vehicle on the planet, simply because to "most of the world" they make absolutely zero economic sense. Of course, there's always fuckwits who are easily conned out of their money, which is why there is a market for the things in the first place.

-- Regards, Noddy.

Reply to
Noddy

Of course the trend is up. The trend for *everything* is up.

In 1980 a new Commodore was seven thousand dollars and a litre of petrol was

30 cents. In 2009 a new Commodore is 5 times more expensive yet petrol hasn't risen at quite the same rate.

My share portfolio is fine thanks.

Time will tell.

To a degree.

Both China and India are countries with huge populations of very poor people, and their "demand" for oil will be limited by what the people can afford to pay for the stuff. The effect of their demand on world prices won't be massive if the majority of their populations can't afford to pay the "world price".

Neither would I, but that doesn't mean the price is going to rise significantly and out of proportion to everything else in our lifetimes.

There is, and they have absolutely nothing whatsoever in common with hybrid cars.

Diesel/electric locomotives exist for a few basic reasons. The most popular being that they allow trains to run on lines not serviced by an electric power system, and they use diesel engines to powert he generators that supply power for the electric motors because a petrol engine of the size necessary do the same thing would be completely impractical and horrendously expensive to both construct *and* operate.

In short, they're configured that way because they need to be. Not because it's the preferred method.

They certainly won't be.

Hybrids are nothing other than a very short term solution to an age old problem that has no easy fix. They still rely on fossil fuels, and they'll be just as dead as my 45 year old Falcon without them.

They're nothing other than an expensive novelty for people who like to think they're "cool". The manufacturers couldn't give a shit about them one way or the other. All they're concerned about is that a segment of the car buying public remains gullible enough to lap them up so they keep making money.

The difference the things are actually making to the environment would be so small it would be impossible to measure.

-- Regards, Noddy.

Reply to
Noddy

The trend is up; that is clear to anyone who can look at the overall history.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

Reply to
Michelle Steiner

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>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about >>>>> the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>>>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, >>>>> then go for it.>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? >>>> How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, is >>>> that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: Petrol >>>> prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest that the >>>> trend will reverse anytime soon.>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, because >>> although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as it becomes >>> clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than petrol, people will >>> be buying new vehicles that run on it in preference to petrol. >>>>>> Petrol prices might rise in the short term, but the effect will be self >>> correcting.

Sylvia. Biodiesel cannot be produced from algae at any meaningful scale.

Reply to
Was Istoben

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>>>>>>>

Why not?

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

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>>>>>> Well, if you're bying a BMW, you're probably not that worried about >>>>>>> the fact that the extra cost of the hybrid is never paid off by fuel >>>>>>> savings. If you're willing to pay $10,000 or $20,000 to feel green, >>>>>>> then go for it.>>>>>> **Really? How much will petrol cost next month? How about next year? >>>>>> How about in 5 years? 10? The problem with making silly predictions, >>>>>> is that you don't know all the factors. I can promise you thing: >>>>>> Petrol prices are in an upward trend. There is no evidence to suggest >>>>>> that the trend will reverse anytime soon.>>>>> Petrol prices would tend to be capped by the price of biodiesel, >>>>> because although petrol vehicles cannot run on biodiesel, as soon as >>>>> it becomes clear that the latter fuel will become cheaper than petrol, >>>>> people will be buying new vehicles that run on it in preference to >>>>> petrol.>>>>>

We burn diesel faster than we can grow algae.

Reply to
Was Istoben

Well said Trevor. Too many in here follow that fuckwits "head in the sand" mentality. Whilst I no longer have the Civic Hybrid, I have to agree current technology being used on Hybrids, leave a lot to be desired.

However, having said that, it is the way of the future with many many refinements and I can see the day when small diesel electrics as you described with locomotives, will be the norm for our own vehicular transport.

At present, let the zombie and it's followers continue to bag something they know very little of, whilst those of us with a functional mind encourage alternative motoring even if it isn't costing us.

Roger/Davo

Reply to
Roger/DAVO

Also well said Michelle. Unfortunately this Noddy clown has a band of intimidated followers who could be likened to "the blind leading the blind". Now you too will sample the wrath of a complete looney.

Roger/Davo

Reply to
Roger/DAVO

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