Non-dealer maintenance

I have nearly all of the service on my 2004 since delivery on Oct 1003 -- it went to the dealer for the fixes announced by mail and was aligned there.

Chats with the local dealer's service manager - a friend

- suggest that there are no magic formulas, though a periodic check with a scan tool is advisable to see if there are any stored codes. I have a scan tool, so don't even do that.

I go to my dealer because they provide tires for life and a 300K warranty on the engine if I do. Unless you have some incentive, there's no reason for you to do it. My dealership also charges competitive prices on their services and provides a free loaner car for all the major service intervals (15K multiples), so it's a win-win for me.

That seems to be a fine dealer, though I am suspicious of the "15k multiples". They probably recommend a 3k oil change interval, too.

Nevertheless, the tires for life and free loaner seems very good - if, as you say, the prices are competitive.

Where is that, Mike?

I'm talking about the standard Toyota service intervals, with oil changes every 5000 miles and additional maintenance at 15K, 30K, etc.

Lighthouse Toyota, St. Augustine, Florida.

I always wonder why the standard Toyota service interval in Europe is every 15000 km - roughly 10000 miles.

cu .\\arc

"Marc Gerges"...

A better grade of oil in Europe is my belief. Tomes

It quotes SAE on the can.

My belief goes to a possibility for money being made.

cu .\\arc

Is that for oil changes? I think the oil is made to the same standard.

We once ran SOAP (Spectroscopic Oil Analysis Program) on our fleet cars, and I put my samples through it as well. There was no reason to change oil more often than every

10,000 miles - in fact, when we tried synthetic there was no significant difference in the fluid after 10,000 miles.

"Marc Gerges" ...

I have read in other posts that the SAE in the US is inferior to whatever the standard (which has different acronyms) in Europe. I am hoping that someone who knows about this will pipe up. Tomes

I have read in other news groups that the moon is made of green cheese. Doesn't make it so. SAE standards are the same world wide. Its just that in some parts of the world SAE and API are not the last word.

In Europe taxes and other government overhead compound to drive motor oil prices to over $10/quart for the cheap stuff. Lets say an engine costs $4000 to replace. How often would you change oil to extend usable engine life from 250,000 to 300,000 miles? Keep in mind how much (or how little) a car with 250,000 miles is worth.

Oil required for European drain intervals must meet ACEA standards (not SAE, not API), many of which focus on extended drain.

Mobil-1 has or had an extended drain formula in the USA last year meeting ACEA A1/A5, B1/B5. Looking just now "Mobil 1 Extended Performance 10W-30" and the plain old Mobil 1 10W-30 meet those ACEA specs. The 5W-30 only meets A1,B1.

"Tomes" ...

Reading on this can be found here:

down in the Service Classes section.Tomes

Oil can be had for somewhat less than 10$/liter, and the fact that it's not considerably less is more related to the USD/EUR exchange rates than taxes/overhead. Plain mineral oil can be easily had for less than 5.

Of course there's stuff for 50+. But I wonder about the percentage of snake oil in that...

In the end the engine is probably what fails least often in a car. After all most are decommissioned due to accidents or damage economically not worth fixing. That may be, at the right spot, something rather minor like a brake job, or switching a broken windscreen, or something similar. One seldom hears of engines dying of mechanical wear (as opposed to broken belts or similar stuff).

Part of the ecological appeal of Prius is, in my view, to reduce waste. So, while not wanting to cut corners on maintenance, I'd prefer paying twice the price on oil that can stay in twice as long.

cu .\\arc

There are multiple aspects to this:

1. It is a good idea to use a Prius-certified technician. They are not all at dealers, some of them are independent. The Prius has enough unique stuff that you do want someone with special knowledge looking it over at least once in a while. The 60,000 mile mark is a good time for it. Also, the scan system is proprietary; ordinary scan tools will not completely diagnose all problems.

1. Don't ever tell a dealer that you want his X miles service. You will be charged for everything under the sun, including a lot of stuff that can't even be done on a Prius. Instead show the service writer the X miles page in your copy of the Prius scheduled maintenance guide, and tell them that you want that stuff only, no more and no less.