Plug-In Prius by 2010

What's the relationship cost per kWh power : cost per mile driven?

I calculated the gas/electric equivalency at my off-peak rate a few years ago when the first plug-in Prius modifications became available. At my rate, which has since seen a slight increase, it was equivalent to 70 cent/gallon gas. Since my electricity comes from coal I expect the cost to increase dramatically over the next couple of years but even if it doubles it will be equivalent to $1.40/gallon gas. My present off-peak rate is .043/kwh. My electric co-op says they will "work with me" on configuring my off-peak system to accommodate a plug-in vehicle since there aren't any on their network now.

The maximum all-electric range at the time I looked into this was 40 miles but I'd guess a practical range would be closer to 30 miles. There wouldn't be a big advantage to a traveling salesperson who drives 200 miles a day since there wouldn't be an opportunity to recharge. Someone with a 30 mile or less round trip commute would save a bundle at my current off-peak rate since they could recharge regularily.

Our 24 hour rate (no off-peak metering) is $0.198 per kWh (and going up with NatGas), so sounds as if this translates to $3.50/gallon (and going up). Not so compelling here.

A plug-in hybrid will still recharge from the ICE, just as the current Prius does. That 200-mile-a-day driver will still benefit from the hybrid technology.

It requires $4.00 gasoline to recharge from the ICE, $.70 gasoline equivalency to recharge from off-peak at my rate.

Of course the driver will still benefit from hybrid technology, but the question relates to the gas/electric cost equivalency, not the benefit of driving a hybrid vehicle.

But if you exceed the distance available from pure EV, you can't ignore the ICE.

Is there anything you won't argue about?

I'm not arguing; I'm discussing. Why don't you give it a try instead of being in-your-face confrontational?

The question was:

"What's the relationship cost per kWh power : cost per mile driven?"

The context was "Plug-in Prius by 2010"

I provided information that addressed the question and did so in context. I doubt you can find anything confrontational in that. Tell us, Michelle, when did we stray from the question/context and when did this become confrontational? Was it when you challenged my comment about a PHEV with a reply about a HEV? Do you consider charging a PHEV with the ICE equivalent to charging one with electricity at home? I don't. Before you go off half cocked you may want to read the thread and note the subject.

No, but I can find it in "Is there anything you won't argue about?"

That's the subject of the original message; the context had expanded beyond that before I joined the conversation. In specific, I was responding to this:

Please tell me how my reply was out of context or argumentative.

Michelle, for all practical purposes a PHEV reverts to a HEV once the charge acquired by plugging it in is spent. I believe News wanted to know how the cost of electricity compared to the cost of gasoline. After all, this would be a very important consideration when contemplating the extra cost of a PHEV.

To make a value judgment one must consider their personal situation. In this discussion we now see a range of gasoline equivalencies from .70/gallon to 3.40/gallon depending on what one pays per kwh. It is also important to consider one's commute, if any, because like I said, the PHEV reverts to a HEV once the plug-in charge is spent. The nature of one's commute would be a very significant factor for someone who can do most of it at .70/gallon, less for one who can do half of it at .70/gallon and far less for one who can do 25% of it at 3.40/gallon.

There is no one-fits-all answer to the question, obviously, but I hoped to give News some useful information to work into his own situation.

Certainly a smart person like you, someone who hangs around Prius groups, could get the drift of my remark. Given the subject, question and the spirit of my reply your challenge was unnecessary, inappropriate, out of context and off topic. Otherwise, however, it was just hunky dory.

If you had not written "since there wouldn't be an opportunity to recharge," I would not have responded to that message. But by writing that, you gave the impression (inadvertently, I'm sure) that that was the range of the vehicle. I was merely trying to clear that up.

I don't believe it is possible to calculate the cost of electricity. The rates change in summer, to start with. Furthermore, there is a fixed charge for connection, and the rates depend on how many kwh are consumed each month (so much for the first 800 kwh, a different rate for the excess). I don't see any peak/off peak rates, other than seasonal.

How many kwh will it take to recharge a 2010 Prius which has been driven

200 miles? It may have used 3 to 5 gallons of gas in that same time.

Trust me. I can read my bill and do the math.

Not here, but even if so, so what?

Gasoline rates change in the northern hemisphere summer (go up) too.

Yes, and integrating, you get a bill, and do the math.

It's not rocket science.

I have two meters, and two panels:

The conventional meter/panel combination is billed at .095/kwh for the first

1000Kwh which I *always* exceed and .087/kwh after that.

The off-peak meter/panel combination also includes remote contols for my furnace, air conditioner and water heater. They are contolled (shut off) for intervals not to exceed 4 hours. The off-peak rate is .043.

In my situation a PHEV would, on average, be parked in my garage for at least 12 hours/day. Allowing for a 4-hour control leaves 8 hours of charging time at .043 while at the same time letting my co-op add that load when they needed it.

As you can see, it easy to calculate the cost/kwh but without knowing the efficiency of a PHEV's charging system, batteries, motors ect. it's impossible to pin down a precise equivalency figure.

The article at the link above includes a hypothetical cost of running a PHEV. Looks like more snake oil is entering the market too.

Specific to the Hymotion PHEV kit:

At .043/kwh, my off-peak rate, 5 kwh of power would be acquired during a

4-hour charge costing 22 cents presuming the charging efficiency is 100%. At my regular rate of .087/kwh that charge would cost 44 cents.

Lets presume you average 40 mpg with your Prius, modify it, and get 100 mpg during the 40-mile phev range. Instead of burning $4.00 worth of gas (at $4.00/gallon) you would burn $2.00 worth of gas plus 5 times the cost/kwh of your electricity or, at my regular rate, 44 cents. It would be costing me

44 cents for the equivalent of 1/2 gallon of gas or $.88/gallon. At the off-peak rate the equivalency would by $.44/gallon.

Looking at it from a different perspective, the phev modification would reduce the fuel cost from $4.00 to $2.88 at my regular rate for the first 40 miles after a charge.

Too bad we don't know the charging efficiency, actual mpg and actual phev range. If we did, we could create a spreadsheet that would closely estimate the costs for an individual's situation. Still, there is enough here for a rough approximation.

For one month. Next month may have a different rate structure.>

So they do here. Which rate do you use to determine the cost of electricity?

And next month, you have a different rate per kwh.