Watchdog and the K16 engine ?

Perhaps you saw the report on the K16 head gasket situation.

Apart from the high-lighted disaprity between the treatment of Rover and Landrover customers, are these engines as bad as reported ?

My local garage has two in this week, £600 a time ( Rover main dealers wont even consider doing the work, insisting a new engine is fitted )

Could the known inlet manifold gasket weakness be a factor, leading to subsequent over-heating, and head distortion ?

Am I sitting on a time bomb, or have I a reasonable chance of ' getting away with it ? ' the engine lasting to a decent mileage, say

150,000 ! Clearly this adverse publicity is going to seriously damage any residual value.

In the car maintenance group, 1.4s seem to feature far more than 1.6s ! Is this representative or are there simply more of them, or are they inherently more unreliable ?

I'd be interested to hear anyone's views on this issue.

Andy Pandy To e-mail, address hopefully, self-explanatory !

Reply to
Andy Pandy
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To be fair the trouble is mostly with the 1.8 litre engines and only with pre 2001 models. Of course you could still have HGF with later models but its rare. Basically the MGs are no worse than any other cars. Rover dealers will do the work, but they wouldn't be the cheapest !! Watchdog was being very unfair to MG-R, the numbers of cars involved are higher than average but not massive. I notice there was no mention of Ford focus airbags going off on their own (far worse in my opinion) or Toyota avensis rear suspension failing.... It was just another anti British story. Would lotus use the engine if it was inherently unreliable ?? No.

Reply to
chris

Don't worry about it - it's just the media doing what they do best.

Check your oil and coolant every weekend. If the car shows signs of head gasket failure, then get it looked at ASAP, before it leads to other problems. Keep an eagle-eye on the temp gauage. If the engine gets excessively hot whilst driving, then STOP.

SIX HUNDRED QUID ?!?!?

It takes half a day or so to swap a head gasket on an average four cylinder engine. You're looking at somewhere around the £150 to £200 mark, depending where you live. Avoid main-dealers for jobs like this !

?

Of course they will. If the headgasket is leaking, then it needs to be changed. Why would a new engine be required ?

It's not going to damage the residual value. The issue is nowhere NEAR as bad as the media makes out. Keep a close eye on your engine, as I mentioned above, and it will be fine.

Bear in mind that head-gasket-failure is not uncommon in ANY car. They DO sometimes leak, and they DO sometimes need replacing. It's not a major job, unless you have a complex engine (V6 engines, have two headgaskets for example).

Reply to
Nom

the k-series rover is one of the most notorious engines for head gasket failure i have come across, wether it be the 1.4, 1.6, or 1,8 derivatives. i have been a mechanic for the last 20 years and have done so many head gaskets on rover k-series i have lost count. in any given month we can expect at least 5 or 6 head gasket failures on these engines to roll into the garage, and we are only a small operation... they are also one of the most expensive jobs to repair compared to other manufacturers with simmilar size engines etc, although its very difficult to compare against.... anyone that quotes you between £150 and £200 for head gasket on a K-series isnt doing the job correctly, heres why.....

parts required: Head Gasket set.....depending where you buy, between £60 and £100 Replacement head bolts (these are stretch bolts and must be replaced, on certain derivatives these can be used twice, however we would never reccomend this, since head gasket failure is common on these, maximum torque is essential to dicourage repeat failure) on average another £50 for the bolts. the cylinder head should be machined (resurfaced) and in the case of overheating prior to head gasket failure it should also be pressure tested for hairline cracks etc, most garages send the head away for this to be carried out and ussually costs around £50 to £80. the head cannot be machined with the camshafts in place since the valves will be protuding, so the head needs to be stripped in half, the camshafts and hydraulic tappets removed, and then reassembled after machining... new cambelt.......anyone who uses the existing cambelt is cutting corners and is asking for trouble....£20 for a belt. most of the time when head gasket failure has taken place the coolant mixes with the engine oil, so, new oil and filter will be required, and of course new anti-freeze... so before you even think about your labour charge you have a potential £250 in parts etc alone..and then once you have put it all back together you can try to find out why the head gasket failed in the first place...there are a number of reasons possible on these engines, radiator fan switches are common for failure, on the older alloy inlet manifolds the outlet to the expansion tank will 9 times out of 10 be blocked, as mentioned before on the later plastic manifolds the gaskets are prone to leaking and this will give a weak mixture which of course will increase engine temperature. i have no idea why the parts are so expensive for these engines, since they are so common you would imagine that competition between suppliers would sort this out, however this certainly isnt the case.....(price fixing ????? you never know) but thats another story.. on average we charge between £400 and £550 depending on the damage involved etc...but suffice to say that i can now do these head gaskets blindfolded...

"Nom" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@enews1.newsguy.com...

Reply to
steve

< snip >

Thanks for that excellent explanation. Very interesting !

It seems the only defence is to maintain the cooling system in tip-top condition, and to stop and investigate, at the first hint of any trouble.

Andy Pandy To e-mail, address hopefully, self-explanatory !

Reply to
Andy Pandy

Other engines that blow gaskets are Pug 1360 and VW 1.1 - 1.3. It amazes me that it costs at least twice as much on parts to fix a British built engine than a German one eg £50 for stretch bolts is ridiculous - so is £20 for a cam belt when you can get OE German VW belts from £6.50. More evidence of living in rip-off Britain!!

Steve

derivatives.

Reply to
Tunafish

perhaps your right, i totally agree parts can be extremely expensive, but for foreign built vehicles, german, french etc we have a wider selection of parts suppliers, german and swedish etc etc....so prices are more competitive, personally i drive japanese, can be sometimes as expensive if not more for parts, but the reliability factor means less demand.

Reply to
steve

My Rover dealer tells me that one of the problems is air-locks in the cooling system. Apparently it doesn't just do to drain & refill. They have a vacuum device that sucks all the old coolant out / new in. Land Rover dealers ( and presumably anyone else who uses and drains the engines ( Lotus?)) don't do this.

You have been warned.

ken

2000 R25 Steptronic 2003 R75 CDTi 1981 TR7 DHC
Reply to
Ken Forrest

This problem was seen on K series engines up to two years ago, I should know as I did some analysis on Land Rover warranty problems a while back. These were engines from new and had never been drained. It is a design flaw and as such Landover are picking up the cost why Rover are not is passed me.

Your rover dealer is a prat as all cooling systems on modernish engines will do this all they have to do is open the correct valve

AJ Rover 220 Coupe Range Rover 3.9l V8 ZRX1100 KZ1100 KZ750 Sp400

Suck those cubes

Reply to
AJ

After reading the topic, i am a bit concerned. I have just aquired a rover

25, W Reg 1.4Si with 26,000 on the clock, and am concerned about the k-series head gasket problem, would this effect my car?

Also, a work collegue is thinking of buying a rover 75, 2 Litre V6 or 2 Litre Diesel, does the head gasket problem effect either engine, and which would be the best buy?!

Many Thanks. Stuart.

blindfolded...

Reply to
Stuart Taylor

The Diesel (CDT) does not suffer from this problem. I don't believe the V6s do either.

P.

Reply to
Paul S. Brown

That's correct. we are on our third 75/ZT-T without any engine problems in either the 2.5 or 2.0D

Reply to
Alan

I too, am still not clear on the reliability of this engine, whether or not it is an almost inevitable design fault, or the result of inadequate maintenance !

I have had an inlet manifold gasket leak, which the later modified gasket cured. If this problem is neglected, and levels not regularly checked, then obviously over-heating would occur eventually !

I have though decided to run with it, mindful of regular fluid level checks, along with fairly regular test of cooling fan ( when I think about it ) I also intend to flush and refill the cooling system annually.

Clearly, at the first sign of over-heating, it is not an engine you can take any liberties with, and drive home ! A ' Get you home ' service is obviously an essential extra ! :-)

Reply to
Andy Pandy

The problem is that the cooling system of the k-series engines only contains a relatively small amount of coolant, due to it's efficient thermal design (this was intentional, so as to allow the engine to heat up quickly and improve winter performance and economy). As a result of this, as you lose water (outgassing, micro-steam leaks, etc...) as _all_ cars do, then the effect is relatively large, and you need only lose a relatively small amount to have serious problems. The problems, if they occur, are worse on the 1.8 engine than on the 1.4 &

1.6, simply because of the extra power being produced.

If you keep an eye on the temperature gauge, and check your levels every week or two, then the k-series engine is _very_ reliable.

Then you should have no problems at all.

You should carry a 2-litre pop bottle of water, to be administered at the first sign of overheating. That's all the get-you-home kit you should need, unless you've sprung a leak or holed your radiator.

Reply to
Andrew Kirby

Cheers ! I'm almost becoming confident in it's reliability ! :-))

Reply to
Andy Pandy

Inadequate maintenance.

Spot on. Take good care of it, and it will be just fine.

Reply to
Nom

With the footnote that the maintenance requirement for this engine is substantially higher than for just about any other engine in current production.

P
Reply to
Paul S. Brown

Not really - it's just much less tolerant of the owner being crap !

Reply to
Nom

And the difference would be?

P.

Reply to
Paul S. Brown

That regular, very minor maintenance, such as checking the coolant level, does not amount to a high maintenance requirement.

Reply to
Andrew Kirby

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