9000SE head gasket blows 6 weeks after tightening by dealership...

The leak at the gasket should probably have been repaired properly at the first pass. But it is usually not undertaken unless specifically requested.

Basically, retorquing is a sort of 'faint hope' clause that sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. The reason it probably let go was that the gasket was already too far gone to benefit from tightening.

They now have to pull the head and will probably need to mill it and the block deck to ensure that everything is properly flat again - this is not because they retorqued, it is just what you should do when you do the head. It's a good time to renew the valve seals and the timing/balance chain(s) if you are in there. Make sure the head is tested to confirm it is not cracked.

It might, in truth, be cheaper to find a working engine in a rusted shell for transplant if you do not intend to keep the car for much longer.

As to the shop not telling you. That depends pretty much entirely on the shop involved. I tend to make sure that once a given system is open (labour hours are the killer) - I spend as much time as possible trying to figure out what else they can do while they are in there.

Makes for a more expensive job at the time - but - overall less expensive in terms of total cost of a given system over time. 700 quid sounds a little expensive to me for just a gasket/milling, but not sure what the market is like in the mother country.

Six weeks later, in the last 10 miles of a 150 mile round trip, the head gasket blows... I dont know if there is anyone out there who knows a bit about the engine of this model. All as I have established is that replacing the gaskett is (according to my Haynes) rated at two spanners of difficulty and comes under the section of in car repairs.

What I cant understand is why a leak from the head gaskett was repaired just by tightening the bolts on a car thats done 136K and the gasket not replaced as a matter of course? Does anyone know if this is routine? Its just that to my mind, they must have had access to it and now are saying it'll be a minimum of £700 to repair, thats after I have paid to have it recovered over there and excluding any other damage (that I have not yet dared to look for).

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Don't go to a Saab dealer. I've got an old 9000 too, and quickly worked out it's not really worth it when I saw their labour rate. Find a reputable local Saab specialist with a good reputation and then enjoy cutting your garage bills by at least half.

Can I ask what the cost of the first repair was? If they knew the head=20 gasket was dodgy they should have warned you in no uncertain terms of=20 what else can be forthcoming. I think they owe you an explanation and=20 rather certainly a discount on the second job (like half price).

I don't think I would have priced a head gasket job as =A3700 at a SAAB=20 dealer, there again ... I don't know. It should be a standard price and =

your car should be getting a /discount/ for part and labour according to =

its age. All old SAABs do ... (mind you the original prices seem to get =

inflated in the first place).

If you were in for an expensive repair I can understand why they would=20 not want to mention the head gasket needed replacement. But if it=20 leaked badly enough for them to retorque it ... then it did need=20 replacement.

Further, even if you had chosen to do the job at the time, ie. replace=20 the head gasket, I am afraid given the mileage the head would have had=20 to be skimmed anyway. So the cost should be no higher now than then.

Finally, given brother Dexter's comments. When the head has to be=20 refaced/skimmed/milled does it have to be stripped of all valves etc?=20 Been there done that but I stripped it because I had to anyway (reface=20 valves). If yes, then it explains the time being high.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D A couple of random comments.

Has that garage always serviced the car? If yes, time they help you given the money you spend on them? ;-) Who is the dealer? YOu don't have to name them .. just give us their=20 postcode. Ring another saab dealer. A head gasket + refacing should be a standard =

charge (it is another story what it might actually cost). Finally, you are keeping the car so the question is where do you repair=20 it/how much can you spend. Say your area, maybe someone can suggest to=20 you an independent garage (I am afraid I can't. Done them myself in the =

past or at the Edinburgh dealer now).

You have my sympathy if that is of any help.

Regards Charles

--=20 Please remove _removeme_ to reply.

Hello brother Charles - pleasure to make your acquaintance.

I should have commented that it would be wise at this juncture to pull the head without a clear go-ahead on the job just to make sure something serious isn't cracked somewhere on the block itself. That would dictate next steps on conditions.

A SAAB head does not need to be completely stripped to be milled depending on condition and the person doing the job, but it is most certainly the right way to do the job as you should be doing the seals when a gaskets goes anyway. It makes the flux report more reliable too.

The block deck needs a very careful and experienced inspection - but most often SAAB blocks only require a careful buff to clean it up. Braze any erosion tracks instead of milling them short if you can avoid it.

Personally, I think you are mostly right save that I do not think the shop is completely at fault in this instance. I feel strongly that it should have been clearly explained that it was a 'hope' exercise and I really think that even with the head strip - the quote is high. But, it is not the job of a shop to make that sort of decision on behalf of the owner. That said, I've left shops behind for less myself.

All that said, as most of the cost is labour, see if you can get the chains and seals thrown into the job at that quote and the OP might be ahead of the game.

Hi again & thanks to everyone for advice...

The car has a FSH from SAAB, hence continuing to use a dealership. The garage I previously used (I live in Herts) closed after the last service, so this is the nearest other one & the first time used (I didnt know about SAAB specialists, but have already looked up a couple of local ones so thanks for that advice). The work done including MOT & service came to =A31800. The instruction was to do everything that needed doing, and I also expressed concern that if I was spending this amount, I wanted to make sure it was worth it... (it has been a superb car up until now, reliable & no breakdowns in over four years). The garage called me about the sump problem, but did not tell me about the head leaking or explain about retorquing. If they had given me the options (ie, I was spending =A31800 & did they want me to risk loosing the engine or pay for a new gasket and additional labour)... I think I would have chosen the latter even if it bumped the price up. Either that or put the =A3=A3=A3 towards a new car. I wouldnt have spent such a huge amount of money if I knew it was all going to teeter on a knife edge of the gasket surviving.

Is there any test that can be done or check made on the integrity of the gasket without removing the head?

I'm going to face flipping the bonnet this morning to see if there is any apparent damage. I've got this nasty feeling in my bones that am going to have to look for a new car.. but I'll certainly phone round some of the specialists ...

thanks again

Why do you think you have a head gasket failure? What have you seen?

Yes, you can check a head gasket ... here are a few of the steps/symptoms.

If a head gasket fails externally, you get oil and/or water coming outside the engine.

You can get exhaust gasses going into the coolant (you will see bubbles in the expansion tank) + a hotter than normal engine.

You can get water going into the oil (the oil will then look like a chocolate milkshake) ... use the dipstick

A simple compression test is the best way of diagnosing if a head gasket is gone. It is done just by cranking the engine on the starter motor ... won't explain exact procedure as I don't remember it exactly ... but it will show which cylinder has low compression. If two adjacent cylinders show low compression the gasket may have blown between them ... and so on.

Is it the head gasket that has failed? What do you see or hear?

Charles

If you've previously always been happy with your dealer it may be worth sticking with them to see the job through, as they know your car and its history. You may also be able to put the bite on them for a bit of discount given the circumstances. I know dealers are expensive, and a good independent might save you some money. I've heard good reports of BPV in Slough (handy to you?), though I've only bought parts from them. I'd be wary of using a garage that is unfamiliar with Saab - the hourly rate may be cheaper, but if it takes them twice as long 'cos they're not used to the beast you still pay through the nose. And they may not be as capable of making an accurate assessment of the state of other components once they get the bits on the bench. Best of luck getting it sorted....

Hello Mills, As a person who just replaced the hood, fender, bumper and radiator mount (I was hit by a semi or lorry, for those across the pond), I can tell you that any classic 900 hood/bonnet will work because they all are the same. In fact there is no difference on the front end at all from the pre-87 and the post-87 900's. The bumper, cowl and headlights are the only different things, but they still attach the exact same way to the exact same frame mounts. I know this because my '86 now has an '88 bumper, lights and cowl, '89 radiator mount, '92 hood, and a new oem fender.

The one thing you should check for when getting a used hood is rust along the edges, that is a very common issue on the 900. Look inside the fold along the back side of the hood (near the windshield) with a flash light to make sure you are getting one that will last a while.

I got one from a Saab shop in Bow, NH. They go by the name Jocary on ebay About a two hour drive from you up I93 (@ the Junction of I89). Also check with Rte 128 used auto in Waltham, MA B&D Used Auto in Shirley, MA.

Jeremy B.

mills wrote:

Sorry, I ment to post this to a different thread. I am a fool.

Jeremy

BK wrote: