... The Lexus of Subaru's" ... ?!?

Salutations:

Oh dear lord...

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Reply to
Dexter J
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"Think of it as an AWD BMW..."

This is definately the end of Saab as we knew it, it is degrading. The idea of buying a Saab, and fooling myself into thinking it is a Lexus or a BMW is beyond me.

-------- MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

Reply to
MH

Lol...I think the GM marketing department responsible for Saab would be quite pleased with that. Direct comparisons to Lexus and BMW is exactly what they're after. It's like a BMW for those who can't quite afford a BMW. Very sad.

Reply to
Grunff

I found the end in my 97 9000 where everything that has gone wrong was a part modified by GM, ie. supplied by GM as opposed to Saab's original suppliers.

Yes, they saved costs and I paid for their profits over and above the odds. My problem is, when the time comes what do I get after a SAAB (as I have always owned a saab including other cards)? Alfa?

Charles

Reply to
Charles Christacopoulos

It looks right. Exactly the same as a Subaru.

Reply to
Charles Christacopoulos

"Dexter J" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eastlink.ca...

Unfortunately this and the *cough*9-7x*cough* is exactly what is needed to financially revitalize Saab. Development costs for these two models are close to nothing compared to a normal new car, and it moves Saab into two completely new market segments. The chevrolet-based abomination will sell like sliced bread to suburban familys who want to change their 9-5s and V70s to SUVs, because everybody else has them. The full range of engine modifications for from HKS, JUN and so on for the Impreza will be available from day one for the 9-2. This will appeal to younger buyers, who now can have nearly unlimited power with European interior quality and design and Japanese build quality. Lexus, BMW and Mercedes are definitively competitors, and the 9-2 comes with prestige, looks, quality and abundant tuning options at a low cost. We just have to face that Saab doesn't make money of us enthusiasts with our 900s, 99 and 9000s.

On the downside, neither the Impreza or the GM POS has anywhere near the crash safety of a Swedish SAAB. This will make Saab look VERY bad!

Maybe in a few years, when Saab has made enough money of the 9-2 and the "other car", they can again spend some money on their enthusiasts, and maybe we one day can see something like another 9000 CSE Aero.

Kristian

Reply to
Kristian Steve Jensen

snip...

with our 900s, 99 and 9000s.

Had to add a couple characters to your sentence, hope you don't mind... Hey.. well GM bought something, and for years 99's 900's & 9000's were all SAAB had, so they must have made some money. I guess GM wants to test how far the SAAB brand will stretch... They've already lost anyone who really wants a new 4door hatch... My neighbor has a 4door hatched KIA!!! Yeeuck...

Time will tell, Somebody at GM has GOT to be nervous about what the loyal SAAB fanatics will do, I'm betting they WILL keep producing products for us.

Man, the Sweedes have got to HATE this. How's Volvo doing over at Ford?

That "hole" in the hood really gets me ... looks so fake. Was there a Sonnett with a fake hole in the hood? Or was it a REAL venting hole?

-meld

Reply to
meld_b

HEre is the original hole :-)

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Necessary or not it does not matter. It exists in the original car :-) so if nothing else the SAAB is a good imitation of it.

And notice how different NOT the 9-2 looks to the Subaru.

:-) Charles

Reply to
Charles Christacopoulos

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Yeah, who knows whether it's really needed. Having looked under the hood, I do believe it is a properly functional air scoop. It's no mustang at least :) Sure is ugly, though, can't argue with that. I would think if the Viggen can cool it's larger, higher-output engine without a scoop, then the 9-2X could do the same.

Really too bad about the 9-2X ... actually I can't bring myself to seriously consider buying any of the newer (esp >2002) Saab cars, so from my perspective the current lineup wasn't exactly satisfactory either. Even the 9-3 hatchbacks just don't quite have the solid feel of my 900NG. It'll be interesting to see if after this experiment with the

9-2X (and abomination 9-7X), Saab can return focus to the people who drive & love Saabs.

Hans

Reply to
Hans Lellelid

It is. The air scoop feeds air to the turbo intercooler mounted below it. The air scoop is only for the Aero model (with turbo) and not for the linear model (without turbo).

Reply to
Goran Larsson

Right ... but my point is the 9-3 Viggen doesn't have one -- and without claiming to really understand the fine points of the turbo, the engine specs look pretty similar. So, I'm saying that while I realize that it serves a function, I think the car could have been designed in a way that didn't necessistate that hole in the hood. I mean -- look at the Volvo S60R putting out 300hp with a high-pressure turbo ... no scoop. The S4 twin turbo ... no scoop. I don't think it's required :)

Hans

Reply to
Hans Lellelid

Saabs up to now have mainly had transversely mounted inline-fours, which left a lot of room in front for turbo and intercooler. The Impreza has a flat horisontally opposed four-cylinder engine, which leaves a lot of vertical space, hence a turbo mounted on the side of the engine and a lot of vertical room which is used for amongst other things, the intercooler.

Specs may look the same in that they both are 2-liter single turbo intercooled 4-cylinder 200+ hp engines, but the differences between them in construction are fundamentally huge.

Since the Saab is built on the Impreza, the production line will also be based on the Impreza. Front mounted intercoolers are available from the aftermarket, but redesigning the production lines for this, when a top-mounted intercooler does the job just as well with the car in stock configuration, is just plain bad business. Also, with the Aero based on the Impreza, Saab is aiming for a market segment which is easily seduced by scoops, wings, and so on. Those who don't want a scoop can buy a FMIC kit and fit a Linear hood.

Who will be first to put a Saab front and interior on an Impreza WRX sedan?

Kristian

Reply to
Kristian Steve Jensen

Thanks for pointing out the implications of the horizontally opposed engine. I knew in the back of my mind that the Subaru had a horizontally opposed engine, but wasn't able to follow through with any conclusions on layout restrictions. It makes sense that since the 9-2X is a Subaru & GM is quite intent on not putting any effort into making it substantially different, that they wouldn't have changed engine bay layout to accommodate the lower-profile (no scoop!) appearance that probably would have appealed more to current Saab owners.

I had assumed that the target audience that you mention was the main factor for putting the scoop at the top. I find it hard to imagine that the 9-2X will really get that audience ... won't those kids buy the cheaper WRX sedan (or any of the numerous competitors)? I just don't see the refined interior being a big selling point. Seems like Saab already had a car that targeted that audience in the 9-3 Viggen hatchback.

Hans

Reply to
Hans Lellelid

The error or your thinking :-) is not on the flat 4 engine. It is on GM wanting to appeal to current owners. With SAAB having a limited production GM will know what appears to current owners. Their problem is how to appeal to all the other car owners who don't buy a SAAB.

Already, there is no hatch back car in the range (because Merc, BMW and Audi don't make one). There is a 1.8 *normally aspirated* engine, whereas all the 9-3s and 9-5s came as turbos. Appeal to SAAB owners is the least important issue in GM's thinking.

I would have thought anyone who want the air scoop would also want the original car with its original exhaust sound :-)

Regards Charles

Reply to
Charles Christacopoulos

Actually, my 93, 95, 96's, 97's, and Classic 900 didn't; the transverse I-4 engine is a fairly new arrival to the Saab world. Before that, of course,the Saab 92 did use a transverse engine, a 25-HP 2 cylinder beast of a powerhouse.

Dave "But if you mean in the last 5 years, OK..." Hinz

Reply to
Dave Hinz

"Dave Hinz" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de...

I *knew* I had this one coming.

Kristian

Reply to
Kristian Steve Jensen

oh, really? Maybe if you consider the two strokes not to be SAAB but DKW engines, the V4 of course IS a Ford engine, and the 99 and 900 engine started as a Triumph engine, then; yes.

------ MH '72 97 '77 96 '78 95 '79 96 '87 900T8

Reply to
MH

"MH" skrev i melding news:c8dl9t$ahg$ snipped-for-privacy@news2.tilbu.nb.home.nl...

There has also been transversely mounted six-cylinder engines, but strangely enough noone seems to eager to speak about them.

Kristian

Reply to
Kristian Steve Jensen

Glad to have not let you down.

mvh, Dave Hinz

Reply to
Dave Hinz

And a real Monster it was, yes. A bit rough on gearboxes, from what I recall. I got to see that a few years back, it was definately a one-of-a-kind installation.

Reply to
Dave Hinz

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