Turbos?

Dan,

Saab used a company in the 1980s called GARRET, the in the 1990s, Mitubishi.

We called the car a SAAB TURBO, but the Turbo wasn't a SAAB engineering feat. I'd be interested in finding out what the Turbos were in the 1970s when they started.

SaabGuy

feat. I'd be interested in finding out what the Turbos were in the 1970s when they started.

Probably Garrett back then too, they've been around for quite a while, Volvo and Ford used Garrett turbos too.

"Dan" skrev i en meddelelse news:xSNoe.6654$ snipped-for-privacy@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

Saab has always used 3rd party turbo's:

Garrett on the "regular" turbo cars. And Mitsubishi on the highperformance (Aero/Viggen) cars. The Mitsu turbo's are a much better turbo.

Luckily the 2004 9-3 Aero has a Mitsu: TD04HL-15T

Cheers!

in article snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com, Saab Guy at snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote on 06/06/2005 02:52:

They were Garrett, too. The technology started at Scania and SAAB/Scania applied the turbocharging method to cars. It was the research at Scania that led to the wastegate principle. APC, of course, was all SAAB and simply years ahead of its time.

Paul

1989 900 Turbo S

I think the first turbo in a production car was 1973 BMW 2002 Turbo, but it was considered exotic and only sold in small numbers.

The 1977 Saab 99 Turbo was the first real mass production turbo car. I remember reading car mags, the journalists just couldn't believe how fast this ordinary looking family salon was. Perhaps that had something to do with the turbo torque; you didn't have to 'scream' the engine. The car just went as if an "invisible hand" moved it along.

With 145bhp and a 0-60 time of 9 seconds, it actually beats my 150bhp 9000 CSE (0-60 ~ 9.5 sec)

Actually - there was the 60's Oldsmobile Jetfire:

.. and the 60's corvair:

Damned you got me there! However, these early turbo cars weren't all that successful. I quote:

"So complex was this system and so unprepared was the Oldsmobile dealer service network for this technology that Oldsmobile offered a program to its customers that for a fee of $50 they would remove the turbo system and replace it with a conventional carburetor."

While others may have dabbled, Saab 99 really was the first to bring successful turbo charging into the mainstream for ordinary mass produced cars.

Oh, I never said it was a great system (covair was better though). Really the daily driver turbo car relies on a much better management system than they could build in the 60's. That was why the SAAB Turbo was the first to really take off. Although, you have to admit there were *a lot* of early turbo SAAB's converted to NA before they were finally written off.

At the heart of the problem then and now for Chev, Olds, Buick and SAAB - factory parts, when something wore out, is and have always been exorbitant.

What ticks me off is that the folks at GM didn't look at using SAAB turbo technology across their model lines. It would have dropped prices for turbo parts and given them a generally MUCH better 2.+ engine solution. I never got why they didn't because that technology was probably the greatest value in the buying out SAAB. VW is on the rigt track there with it's TDI efforts.

I've been looking around for a Rajay that might be retro-fitted to my 403 Olds in the motorhome. All I want is a couple of extra foot-pds of torque for the hills and I'll bet it is exactly the ticket if I can find one.

in article snipped-for-privacy@spamblock73546sizefitter.com, Johannes at snipped-for-privacy@spamblock73546sizefitter.com wrote on 06/06/2005 12:57:

Shhh! We (SAABers) keep that one quiet :)

Heck, you'll have Grunff running about the place shouting "See! See! BMW are alright!" and such like ... Great car, BTW. There's a magazine in the UK, called "Retro Cars", which focuses on tuned retro (but not necessarily classic) cars. The 2002 has featured a number of times in the magazine. They do seem to like SAABs, too, now a few of us have hassled them. Yeah, I like the 2002, but I don't think I could be obsessive about it in the same was as a SAAB turbo.

Paul

1989 900 Turbo S

You'd probably be just as well off with a Garrett T4 or similar medium sized turbo, any number of exhaust or performance shops can fab the parts you'd need to install it, but you have to be careful boosting engines that were not designed for it, and you pretty much have to be fuel injected for it to work well.

It's interesting that while 900's were first produced in 1979, 99's were still made until 1984 (a year after my 1983 900S!). Like 8V 900's, I presume that 99's didn't get imported to all markets after the 900's came out. Where exactly did 99's get sent to after 1979? Was there any development work done on the 99's post-1979 and were any engineering changes made which were not related to new technology innovations of the period?

I'm keen on getting a 99 because of the similarities to the 900's, but I know that to get a 99T in good condition would be quite a coup! I've seen a few here (someone had one at a recent NSW Branch SCCA meetings I attended).

Regards,

Craig.

Well that's what I'm reading up on lately.

I'm running a 1977 403 inch Olds block with the truck cam. It was sort of a cross platform solution for GM - being used in everything from generators to firebirds to motor homes. The idea was to use a universal engine across as many platforms as possible (sound familiar anyone?). The primary difference between engine application being the cam, carbs and timing module. It was used as a replacement for both the 455 and 350 in many applications.

So - where I am not looking for 600+hp out of the engine, but rather a bump of 100 or so foot/pds of torque around 3/4 redline (2,800 rpm), I think the stock compression and intake is fine. The engine was vastly under-compressed to make smog numbers. The problem is finding the original plumbing kit several folks made for the 403 engine back 25 years ago.

The Rajay had the advantage of using a completely standalone spring set waste gate (no vac) and only needed an oil line off the cooler nipples. There are several intercooler options out there, mostly from GMC diesel division. The Rajay used a insert above the carb to pressurize the system and, I think, could be bolted directly onto the stock exhaust manifolds. BAE also seemed to have a similar solution. In either case, you need two turbos' with a cross pipe to make it work evenly.

Effectively, what I'm trying to do is add some punch - but nowhere near the limit of the turbo or the engine given that there is pretty much no occasion where I'm much above 3/4 redline being that it is a motor home.

Garret and AR type solutions like our SAAB units are *much* more powerful, but therefore more complicated, than I actually need I think. However - I could well be dead wrong and so continue with the reading.

The stock figures for the engine as it sits now are: 185hp@3600 RPM,

320ft/lbs torque @2200 RPM. I'd like to see 250hp@3,600 RPM and about 420ft/lbs of torque around 2,800 RPM. I'm pretty sure that's about the limit the transmission will live with - and that item in the power train is much more the deciding factor.

Lol. I know I've been a bit quiet lately, but I've been reading all the threads over the past couple of weeks - I'm in bed with a broken leg + ankle. It hurts a lot, and I have lots of time to spare...

The 2002 is a superb car, and on my list. Many similarities between it and the 99T. Has that lean, mean, hungry feel.

We (UK) got 99s up to (I think) 1982.

Nothing significant that I'm aware of.

Indeed. They are a lot of fun, especially the 99T. Under the bonnet, they are very similar to a 900, so you'll feel right at home. The suspension + brakes are very similar to that on early 900s.

Yes, the 99 was produced until 1982, then replaced by the Saab 90.

Cheers!

I didn't think I'd ever say this, Johannes, but you're mistaken. The Corvair Corsa was sold in 1965 and 1966 with an optional turbo. Here's one link:

One of my neighbors _just_ bought a new-to-him Corvair Corsa, I don't know if it's got the turbo or not. I'll ask him next time I see him.

180HP in a car that size ...

Someone on my block drives a beautiful green 2002. I see it parked on the street every night. I don't know if it has the turbo or not. The body looks mint, but it smokes and sputters a bit when it first starts up.

John

In all honesty, the differences between the 99T and an early 900T, are that there's a bit more room to work under the hood in the 900. That's it. As I recall, the extra length was put in the nose for crash test reasons? All the parts are in the same place, and I can't think of any that aren't interchangable (other than the hood). From the windshield back, I'm pretty sure they're the same car (3-door model, anyway).

Dave Hinz

This is very true. I did my 99's clutch, and it was not as nice as on a

900. Radiator had to come out.

They do handle differently though, and the 99 is lighter, with less forward overhang.