Why is this newsgroup all technical troubleshooting?

This is generally not true, odd topics appear from time to time. Make your own contributions.

Most welcome, then post the URL. Remember this is not a binary newsgroup.

Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? :)

Saab guy,

If you really are a SAAB guy (and not just a *new* SAAB owner) you'd know that the most revered of the Trollhattan iron are the older models. The older the better...

Loving, owning and nuturing the oldies (but goodies) is what makes most of the folks on the newsgroup tick. I find the same to be true (but to a slightly lesser extent) in the a.a.bmws group.

I think most of the opinions about the current direction for SAAB (GM) in the areas that you mention are negative, and who likes to dwell on the negatives?

-Fred W

Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? :)

It does?

Good. Got a Saab Suite, by the way? I have a not so good .mpg of it you could get a copy of if you like, and _somewhere_ I have it on VHS.

Fred,

I know, it's just extremely hard to hear the "negativity" of Saab's direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.

Because, ultimately, we all want Saab to succeed, so I much like you, not like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.

I also respect the old Saabs as well as I own a few of them myself.

Saab Guy

their Saabs? In addition to this can we add some dialog as to Saabs marketing direction, events, and so forth? :)

to download!

even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.

to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.

The problem for me is that once upon a time, you could drive a Saab and you'd know it was a Saab. Take the C900 (the car I'm most familiar with). Compare it to *any* of its contemporaries, and you find it was miles ahead in so many ways. Now take a 9^3, or even a 9^5. Compare it with other cars in the class. Are they different? Are they better?

direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.

like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.

Grunff,

I hear you. I know what you're saying, but "better" is subjective. There maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different.

I think the problem is, is that Saab is "replacing" Saabs with other Saabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.

It would be nice to see a 2005 C900, 2005 NG900 along with the 9-3SS and 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!

I am trying to collect all the Vides now to keep the passion alive for myself and others!

Saab Guy

others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different.

I actually meant better than its peers. You can argue for a loong time about whether a C900 is 'better' than a 9^3 - I don't think that matters.

To me, the real question is: It's clear that a C900 was a much better car than the vast majority of directly comparable cars available during its production run. Can the same be said of a 9^3?

instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.

SportCombi. Now that would be good!

Hmm, interesting idea ;-)

Grunff,

I'm glad you think that's an interesting idea. It would actually be possibl= e ironically since Saab's factory in Trollh=E4tten is currently running at = half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000 and= NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which of c= ourse use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded (no= t falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contemporary m= odels).

You know they had the Viggen, but they could always bring in models such as= the following

"Gripen" "Draken" "Tunnan" "Lansen" "Safir"

Also keep in mind Talladega was had in 1986 with the C9000 and 1996 with th= e NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega interna= tional speedway?

Saab Guy

e maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then= I would just like to say it's different.=20

abs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for = that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS = to the fleet, everyone would be happy.

d 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!

ironically since Saab's factory in Trollhätten is currently running at half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000 and NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which of course use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded (not falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contemporary models).

the following

NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega international speedway?

maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but then I would just like to say it's different.

instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS to the fleet, everyone would be happy.

SportCombi. Now that would be good!

MA_TWAIN,

I know, it's soo sad. It reminds me of that comedy with Chris Farley, "Tomm= y Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other co= mpany bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they care= d about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab= with Ford? I'm thinking not really.=20

I wish A) the European Union didn't force Scania to separate from Saab or v= ice versa or potentially B) Ford buying Saab as well may have been a good i= dea opposed to GM as Saab has worked with Ford in the past (ie. Remember th= e Saab model 96 with the Ford V4 engine)?

Saab Guy

sible ironically since Saab's factory in Trollh=E4tten is currently running= at half the capacity. So they should use the other 50% for the C900, C9000= and NG900 by bringing them back as commemorative / vintage editions which = of course use today's technology, so everything would be virtually upgraded= (not falling back to shotty replacements found here in there in contempora= ry models).

h as the following

h the NG900, so why can't Saab run the 9-3 SS in 2006 down at Talladega int= ernational speedway?

re maybe others that think the new 9-3SS is better than their C900, but the= n I would just like to say it's different.=20

aabs instead of simply "adding" to a fleet. If Saab kept C900 or NG900s for= that matter, or both of them and kept upgrading them then adding the 9-3SS= to the fleet, everyone would be happy.

nd 9-3 SportCombi. Now that would be good!

direction, even though some think that Saab is missing just "1 final nail" in the coffin. I will fight that negatitity in the face of the recent GM news and humor myself and others by being wishful and hopeful in whatever comes out at the end.

like to dwell on negativity because Saab is where it is now, and that's that.

IMHO, the answer to both is no.

Craig.

Hey brother Twain - long time no hear. I think that about sums up the problem and perhaps the solution.

SAAB in many ways reflects the current supply side trending towards the lowest minimum possible acceptable level of quality, endurance and service in Branded products. Just exactly how much sawdust can you put in the burger before they yokels catch on I suppose?

I think I heard another CEO at the Nabisco group explaining it as "harvesting the Brand value to the shareholders".. Which I guess explains why my Ritz crackers now sux.

Essentially, GM is losing money because they are making bad cars under good badges right now. "Not meeting expectations at a consumer level" to sensitize the statement into a more corporately and socially acceptable non-phrase.

I was saddened to figure out why my 1993 Aero has been springing erroneous CEL alerts that seemed impossible to diagnose. A simple 5 cent part - that really deserved to be a 10 cent part considering it's impact on the greater engineered package. Hello 50% GM ownership at the time.

What makes the whole situation all the more frustrating is that GM really have the right answer in the Epsilon initiative, but I don't think they can get there MBA mortarboards around it. One chassis - sliding scale for

*everything* from the headlights, to the engine, to the suspension, to the body and *everything* inside of it.

Build a wider lower 9000 on it and make it 4 wheel drive a Turbo Diesel.. You beat the pants off the Magnum on all counts. End game - roll out the grass and sweep up the stands.

Formalize the wiring harness and relays to a *much* better specification and open source the engine management CPU. Didn't they brain the Mars Rovers with UNIX?

And why in the world the LPT hasn't been properly exploited into the general manufacturing of pretty much all gasoline based GM products is really beyond me - unless of course it's cheaper to build a V6 - or - engineering can't get it through marketing without the pitch droids insisting on trying to make a huge and undeliverable expectation out of it.

You know, I looked long and hard at the decision to buy a 1993 9000 over a

2004 ^95 - both Aero.

At the end of the day, I really do get much better value and have a overall better build car for about 10% of the reduced year end list on the ^95. Moreover, I don't have to carry all the heavy insurance to please the money changers.

I effectively turn my monthly payment into an uprate or a repair over the next 5-10 years, keep the body rust proofed and give it a fresh sanding and paint every so often.. Why, there is every likelihood I will get *a lot* of happy years out of her.

That 'uprate' isn't going to be Koni's or Maptune - it is going to be electrical, plastics and rubber parts.But once done, I have a *remarkably* fuel efficient car with *huge* interior capacity and some measure of real style and comfort that I think looks pretty good against anything on the GM showroom floor today. Wax her up, slip on a set of Euro blinkers and lights and take her to a Cadillac lot - I can assure you it will get as many inquiries as the STS sitting beside it.

Metal, plastic and rubber is just that - it knows no nationality - nor does the commitment to trying to engineer something that is *actually* as good as and better than the previous model lineup. It was in many ways what made SAAB great. They functioned in a culture of incremental improvement from the 96 and 99 forward on a agreed platform right through the C900 series and, I would argue, the 9000 up to 1995/6. Was it the most advanced engine or design throughout their model runs? .. Nooohoho .. Was an actually better SAAB available when it came time to trade it through those years - yes.

At the end of the day, I fear the mantra of 'Shareholder Value' in conjunction with 'Brand Exploitation' has done great harm over the last 10 or so years to a lot of great products including automobiles. Individually and in balance with "Product and Service Improvement" they work great - but ignoring the latter two in favour of the first two as a leading policy at the executive level... Well - you end up losing 1.2 billion on the biggest incorporated production and finance enterprise ever developed...

There - you have something other than a trouble shooting note. I've been chastised in the past for posting crap like this - but what the hell, that's what I have to say about it. Personally, I think most of the real SAAB talent headed over to Volvo when the writing was on the wall.

Hey brother grunff - how is the BMW trist holding up? Still wine and roses?

Dexter J,

That was very well said.

I am curious, when was the first sign in your opinion when the "writing was on the wall" so to speak? Also, did many from Saab move to Volvo and when did that transition start?

This "Brand Exploitation" is so true nowadays, saddens me to pieces. It's all over the place "Dell, The North Face, Nabisco".

I don't think that Panasonic has fallen victim to this yet. Do you think that Volvo hasn't either?

Saab Guy

Individually

GM is far from the only company with this problem. Marketers are always talking about the value of brand names while studies show that consumer value of brands is plummeting. It's no surprise, you can fool people for a while by slapping a well known name on junk, but once people figure it out there's no going back, that name is forever associated with junk.

Still pretty good Dex, thanks. Looking for a second one for Mrs G.

Boy" when they when the auto parts plant was closed because this other company bought them out, and I vividly recall them saying that "all they cared about was the name and not the people". Is Volvo suffering as bad as Saab with Ford? I'm thinking not really.

Did you know that your line length is at 400 or something, and requires sideways scrolling for many readers?

You know - you often read about how a little three way experimentation in a longer term marriage sometimes turns into a change of heart for the missus..

.. :) ..

Actually, very pleased to hear it's turning out. I'm a sucker for the 9000 as you know - but I have heard that the right BMW models are pretty good comfort-wise. I keep seeing estate versions from the mid-90's around town and there was a very interesting used diesel sedan on the market last winter.

How do you find your's on fuel overall?

Lol

I get around 29mpg overall (that's our gallons, which are bigger than US gallons - 1.2 US to a UK). My T16 gets about 27mpg. I'm pretty happy with that.

Gruff,

Is that what happened with you two guys and your wife?

SaabGuy