Took my SW2 in to Sears Auto for an oil change. After doing the job they told me to take the car into an engine shop ASAP, because when they pulled the dipstick out a little smoke was coming out and "that usually means a cracked head gasket". So all the money I spent at the Saturn dealership trying to get them to tell me what was wrong seems to have been a waste. They charged me alot of money but never were able to fix the problem of my car getting very warm. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!
Looks like my new tires will have to wait until I get this checked out. I doubt the $350 or so I'm saving for tires will be enough to replace a cracked head. This really bites....
A little smoke constitutes a bad head? Come on... Every car gets moisture in the crankcase at one time or another. I would assume you mean steam rather than smoke. Either way, maybe they are blowing smoke :)
I wouldn't count on anything that an 'oil changer' at Sears has to tell me, especially diagnosing major engine trouble. How did the oil look? If you have coolant getting into the crankcase, the oil should have been like chocolate milk.
Your post title is troll fodder. A bad "head gasket" and "bad head" are two differnt things. You have a SW2 which has a Twincam which does not have head casting flaws which means you likely have a bad head gasket not a bad head. Probably do to overheating if this is the case. Before you jump to conclusions have YOU ever noticed a measurable loss of engine coolant??? This could simply be "moisture" in your crank case. A cylinder leak down & compression test as well as a pressure test of the cooling system would be VERY WISE before going any further. If they say you need a new head or head gasket they had better prove it. Some grease monkey at sears is could be all gun ho over over nothing. (Maybe someone related to misterfullofcrap.)
James - They did say 'smoke' but since I didn't see it for myself I don't know if it was steam or smoke. It was a hot sunny day, no rain or moisture to speak of, so would it have been possible to get enough "moisture in the crankcase" to cause some steam like that? The oil was very dirty and needed changing at least a month ago. I wouldn't say it looked like chocolate milk, just real dirty oil. I've been real good with oil changes on this car, except for this one time.
I am concerned because I've known for quite awhile something hasn't been right under the hood. The engine gets hot but doesn't overheat, because I make a point of not driving it far like I've wanted to do. I basically go to work, the store and back home. Oh well, this mystery will be solved someday when I save enough pesos. Jeff
So they were showing you dirty 3000 mile oil? And you dont go one long trips now? Like no more than 15 min drives? From what I read this tells me that there has been enough opportunities for moisture to build up in your crank case. Moisture collects in your engine just like it collects on grass early in the morning. Again I ask have "you" noticed a measureable loss of engine coolant?
BlaBla wrote: "...have YOU ever noticed a measurable loss of engine coolant?"
Absolutely none in fact. I guess it was last winter that Sears changed the antifreeze to the orange colored coolant that's made for cars with some wear on the engine. I didn't know they were going to change it and they didn't charge me, but it was something that needed done. Never ever, before or since have I had to add coolant. However, during this long hot summer I did have to add a quart of oil two different times because the engine did burn some of that up. I'm assuming that's not a huge deal considering the heat we've had ths year. And one of the times I added a quart was after the one long drive I took this year.
Just so you guys know how this all started: It was actually over 2 years ago that a truck tire tread flew off a truck that was 2 spots in front of me on the highway. The tread hit the car in front of me, went under his car, his back wheels popped the tread back into the air, then hit and broke the shield under my bumper before going underneath me car. The Saturn dealership here in Omaha 'eventually' told me a piece of the shield lodged up against the "intake gasket" which they replaced. I swear though that before they changed that gasket, that I heard a small piece of the shield get sucked up into the engine. Maybe that's not even possible but it sure did seem like it. Anyways, immediately after the truck tire tread caused the damage my car has ALWAYS been running warm but has never overheated. And after changing a thermostat, a water pump, and an intake gasket, I still can't take the car on long trips. It wouldn't be so bad if I had money to continually throw at the problem but I'm just an average working stiff trying to pay the rent every month. That's the breaks I guess.
Oil changers at Sears! and parts changers at Saturn dealer! Did the oil changer take a sample of the oil so you could have it analyzed by an oil lab? Did they save the filter so it could be cut apart and inspected? Did they have the equipment to test the coolant for combustion products?
If the coolant is leaking into the oil then this would only cause overheating if the coolant level got very low and this would result in more than just a little coolant in the oil, this is often visible on the dipstick (and often referred to as 'making oil' due to the rising level) and it would be readily visible in the drained oil, .however I suspect that the oil flunky just drained the oil into a big sump where it was not possible to let it settle out to check for coolant. This is just another good reason to change your own oil and to drain it into a CLEAN pan so it can be checked after settling..
When a blown head gasket causes overheating it is more common for the combustion products to blow INTO the coolant and this can cause overheating but will usually also show as foamy or oily and dark contaminated coolant. In this case the coolant will only leak into the cylinder after shutdown (due to the cooling system pressure) and usually only in small quantities that will normally get blown out the tailpipe on the next startup.
AFAIK the twin cam head does not suffer the casting problem that the 96-97 single cam heads did. IMHO a gasket problem is more likely, but suspect that any overheating is more likely cased by some other problem. I suggest you find a real mechanic and rule out the more common problems first. They are lack of coolant circulation due to plugged or corroded radiator or thermostat that is not opening fully. Any obstruction of the airflow or a dirty rad or ac rad or missing lower air dam or faulty fan can cause overheating as can faulty ignition timing. The most obvious thing to check is the gauge which may be reading high.
As in all mechanics eliminate the most common and easy to fix problems before jumping to expensive conclusions.
Posted my reply before finishing it. Just wanted to add that Saturn did check the cooling system on two different occasions. According to them it was working properly. I will write down what you suggested I do to it next. Thanks for the advice, Jeff
SW2Driver, my SL1 was getting warmer than usual and then it started leaving oil in the garage. Yup it was at least a head gasket, and could be more if they find a crack in the head or it needs to me machined. The cost that Saturn quoted just for the head gasket change (apparently the intake and exhaust manifold gaskets must be changed as well) was $943. Since the car was old I just sold it to a local machanic, didn't want to deal with that kind of expense on an old car.
This pretty much rules out head or gasket failure, and is a very good (but not 100%) indicator.
Keep a log of oil and fuel (and everything else) to determine consumption rates. EXCESSIVE consumption or a sudden increase in consumption RATE may be a problem indicator. Most properly wearing engines consume SOME oil. Some will say that an engine that burns NO oil is not getting emough oil to the top rings and will have problems in the future but YMMV. Oil consumption will tend to increase in hot weather and on long trips at high speed. Our engines burn less oil (and gas) when my wife drives! Old used oil will burn faster than new fresh oil and can be an indicator that it is time to change all of it. Some brands will burn slower than others and an older engine MAY benifit from a change to 10w30 from 5w30 in hot weather.
The air filter (and the air intake box) will prevent stuff getting sucked into the engine.
Any sudden change in operation linked to an EVENT is a good indicator of the cause of a problem and is the place to start for a solution! Many here report that the horizontal air dam below the rad DOES make a difference in cooling and coolant temp in hot weather, replacing it is a good first action, (find a used one from a wrecking yard to save $. Find a self service yard as you will find lots of other stuff like tires on wheels and other plastic pieces that you can purchase cheaply, and the exercise of removing them yourself will teach you a lot, and if you break them you do not need to take them).
As others have said here, short trips constitute SEVERE usage (especially in cool weather) and will result in a buildup of moisture in the crankcase and REQUIRE shortened oil change intervals. Engines like long highway trips (at reasonable speeds) and this is usually the least severe form of operation.
Every time someone tells about a REAL cracked head in their Saturn-due to a manufacturing flaw- Bla Bla accuses them of being a troll related to me! Everyone knows that cylinderhead casting flaws have been STANDARD at SATURN!
Sorry to hear about your SL1 'micven55'. I found the Saturn dealership here to be very expensive, especially considering the problem still exists. I know shops at dealerships are more expensive, but I feel I really got hosed.
Good info the rest of you gave. I'll definitely write some things down so I don't forget any of it. I'm considering just getting my tires first then saving for whatever other repairs are needed. Who knows, I may even move before doing anything else to it. Although I will be getting a new belt put on. I'd hate to get stuck halfway between Omaha and Casper or Billings with a broken belt. The friend who sold me the car kept all his service repair bills, and I don't see where a new belt was put on. That's almost 7 years. And the car has 71,000 miles on it. It's possible he did change it and lost a bill, but I hate taking chances and the belt is worn. Heck, I've put about 26,000 of those miles on it and I obviously haven't changed it.
Man, am I ready to get on the road and head west. One of these blue moons....just maybe.
Ok, I've been browsing the on-line parts stores (i.e. Napa Auto), just to price a horizontal air dam. Couldn't find it anywhere. Is it part of something else maybe? Or known by another name?
Good, then you have no known issue with your head or head gasket.
Most likely your oil control rings are sticking or PCV valve needs cleaned out with brake clean.
I remember that post! It made no since to me at all then or now. Kinda need imagery for this because I have no idea how the air sheild below your radiator made it to the top of your engine compartment, past your air filter, through the throttle body, into the intake manifold, and then lodged itself into your intake gasket which is on the back side of your engine... ? Thats just one scenario I came up with from what I could gather from your post. The other scenario's make about as much sense... I still have no idea how your intake gasket was "damaged" unless you're speaking of a different part.
"Air dams" keep air from going under the car from the start. I'm not to sure what the parts actual name would be other than "air deflector". You wont likely find it at napa, autozone, or advance since its a body component.
BlaBla wrote: "I still have no idea how your intake gasket was "damaged" unless you're speaking of another part."
Either I wrote it wrong or my posts are running together since I've written a few lately. What I meant to say if I didn't, was that when I originally took the car in to Saturn after the incident, I was told a piece of the shield broke off and lodged up against the "air intake" damaging it. I'd have to find the old receipt but I'm pretty sure I was told they needed to replace the "air intake" if that makes any sense.
It was a couple of visits later they finally hooked the car up to a tester and found out that the water pump was bad as well as the intake gasket. I had both replaced for a heck of alot of money. There was a visit not long before that one when I had them replace the thermostat MUCH to the dismay of the mechanic. He told me, "If it was my car I wouldn't even worry about it." Guess he thought I was imagining the problem. He hadn't even hooked the car up to the tester, but did check the cooling system which was working ok according to him. I know I wasted over $100 on getting that thermostat replaced, but did so out of frustration.
"Curious, was your oil pan dented in anyway?"
Not that I know of. I've had a few oil changes since the incident and was never told it was dented or damaged. I do want to take it to a garage and ask if they'll put it on a lift and look at the underside with me. I'm REALLY curious as to what I'll see. Especially that "horizontal air dam". It makes perfect sense that it could of and probably was damaged. I'm guessing it's not part of the shield. When I first took the car in the shield was replaced.
No apologies needed, my car was old and it was time to move on. I got a Mazda 3s and it's an absolute hoot to drive. As far as my old SL1 goes the mechanic had to mill the head, I guess it was warped a little, and replace the head gasket, no cracks. He was advertising it for $2500 more than I sold it to him, so I'm sure he made out well on it.
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