Consumer Reports: "Disappointing ION"...

Their 6's aren't horrid, but IMHO, none of the Japanese makers have gotten V motors down as well as Detroit. 4's? Yeah, they're a bit better. IMHO, for a 4, it's Japan, inline 6, it's europe, V 6 or 8? Detroit. They've been squirting them out forever.

Honda's automatics don't excite me. They're also non planetary, which is lame. If you've ever seen how GM's 4L60 gets 3 speeds + overdrive from 2 simple planetaries, it's quite something...

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski
Loading thread data ...

I own a '99 Si, the quickest stock Civic to date (according to half a dozen magazines anyway - i.e. 0 to 60: 7.2 1/4m: 15.7). I can't verify those times and I'm sure that I could not match them personally, but I can tell you that I do get 27-28 mpg CITY / 29-30 mpg HWY. Assuming you have a lessor model Civic, you should be getting better mileage than me. Something seems wrong. Is your car properly maintained? Has it been molested...I mean, modified? IMO, Honda engineers do a good job with all aspects of the car, but once you start changing it, you screw it up (not you personally).

Compared to what? I'll look up the interior specs. I'm 5'-8" 250 lbs. and fit quite comfortable in my Civic, even in the back seat - compared to some other small coupes I looked at. The newer Civics are even larger.

Hmm. I never checked.

Eh, ok.

Reply to
Mark Gonzales

I was actually kidding about the Honda V6 being garbage - just seeing if anyone was paying attention, seeing how Saturn is using this same engine / tranny in the '04+ V6 Vue. But the rest of my post was more-or-less serious. ;-) I don't really know if the Honda 5-speed auto-tranny is crap, but my brother did get a recall on his '02 Odyssey.

And I agree 100% with your take on engines by countries, and to add to that - domestic trucks rule and always have!

Domestic V6s and trannys have always been smooth to me and I rent allot of cars, from the 3.4L Alero (had one for 2 weeks just 3 weeks ago) to the Impala and Grand Prix GT. The 3800 is always a pleasure, as well as any other V6 that might be under those hoods. Trannys are always silky smooth.

I jumped in this thread because I thought Honda was being a little overly criticized with some of the comments. No acceleration and made for midgets??? Power and size are just fine for what it is IMO, and too many people have forgotten what the Civic is. It's the current inconsistent build quality that has me dissing it. Ok, a little more power might be good as long as mileage isn't sacrificed. My problem with the Civic is the same problem I have with some current Saturns. TOO MUCH FREGGIN' WEIGHT! My favorite Hondas and Saturns are the late '80s CRX Si's and 1st gen SC/SC2s. Hondas and Saturns use to be light and tossable but I guess those days are lone gone .

Reply to
Mark Gonzales

It would overheat on a 980 degree day? What a piece of crap!

Reply to
Ratbert

Isn't it the truth. I won't even set foot on the nearest Honda dealer's lot (Leith in Raleigh, NC). I have tried to buy cars from them in the past and they awere just plain a**h*les. When my Sister wanted a Civic, we visited them and tried to negotiate a decent price. They were ridiculously high and arrogant as hell. "You won't get a better price anywhere else" was the final words from the salesamn . One call to an out of town dealer got us a good price. As a result the local dealer get zero business from me or my Sister - not even warranty work. I actually like Hondas but would never consider the local dealer .

Ed

Reply to
C. E. White

I agree totally. I once learned from Pontiac that it was originally started off as the new generation of Camaro (like it's Pontiac Cousin Astre was to be the new Firebird) and that's when they started experimenting with the aluminum block. (Actually, Chevy did make some 1969 Camaros with aluminum...ZR1 - was that the name? I understand some of the suspension was aluminum too...) But I recall the V8 Vega models - being smaller and having such a motor - was something pretty competitive in it's time - until cylinders got scored...

It's a shame that GM just did not test their cars and refine them (once upon a time) each step along the way. Saturn seems to listen at times.

I recently read in the Kansas City Star that GM pulled a Toyota executive out of retirement to work with them, and one of the comments he made [to GM - paraphrased] was: "You only test up to the warranty limits you offer. You must test to the limits of the failure of the vehicle..."

Reply to
Warren

We tried the Costco (like Sam's Club) buying service for a 04 Element EX, yet when going to the first dealer that made an offer, a regular, non-internet sales guy tried to get the sale. Another dealer was 100% better, but still no Saturn dealer - my gripe with them (dealer the car was bought from) is that they install an aftermarket alarm in every car regardless whether you buy the alarm or not (when you buy it they activate it). I asked a few questions about 'how' it's installed and the sales guy said Honda would only allow a unit that utilized the factory plugs on the harness - no cutting, no splicing. Yet when Lojack was added later, they used taps, placed the control unit in an obvious location with 2-sided tape and bundled up the antenna and taped it up (it fell down on the floor a month later). Sloppy, lazy work that was probably subbed out - shame on the dealer.

My neighbor just bought a new CRV - not as pretty as a VUE but still neat (to me).

Reply to
Jonnie Santos

If GM could match long-term reliability with their stellar advertising and marketing they'd blast everyone else out of the competition. I love the commercial where the lady Engineer parks a 40' SUV with 4-wheel steering next to some biker's - I grin every time I see it. There's too many of us older farts that have GM horror stories that we are not letting go and are not seeing the probs imports have today with an unbiased eye. IMO, most car makers are just making product and it's dumb luck when something great makes it to the real world...

Reply to
Jonnie Santos

My dad needed a hitch on his Odessy, naturally, the dealer wanted some inane amount ($400 or so) to install it, so we had them throw on the coolers up front, and got our own hitch and stuck it on.

Oh yeah, but the lighting hookup? There's a jack in the back wiring harness that you plug your light harness into. It's in the manual. The manual also states you can get the matching plug at the dealer. Naturally, the dealer acted as if they've never heard of this, and the resulting run around was like a Pentagon press briefing. They hadn't heard of this plug. We showed it to them in the manual. "Oh, that really doesn't exist". Well, shit, we saw the freaking jack with our own eyes.

A few other dealers acted the same way. To get the stupid .05 cent POS plug, we'd either have to buy some 'towing adaptor' for 200 bucks (!), or a whole towing kit, a bargain at $500. We called honda. They denied the existance of this plug. "You can't just buy that plug".

We gave up, bought our own plugset, and cut the OEM one off.

BTW, re Honda quality - They're not stupid. They know they've got a reputation, so it's cutback time. Look at any recent Sony electronics Vs the 70's and 80's and you'll see the same thing.

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski

The Ecotec will surpass honda's 4 banger I'm sure.

Actually the 3.5L is garbage. You cant touch the fuel injectors and you cant remove the spark plugs without removing the intake from what I recall. I dont like 60 deg motors.

For sure. We use trucks daily so we know how to design them, they... What do they need trucks for?

The 3.1's 3.4's are 60 deg motors but are very smooth. The 3800 is probably by far the best 6 cylinder on the market.

To...much...weight??? The Ions weigh 2700Lbs and the L300's weigh

3000lbs! If they were any lighter they wouldnt stick to the road! Light cars are considered bad by anyone in the car crash testing field anyhow.
Reply to
Blah blah

The '88-'91 Civics, especially the sedans/wagons, were very nicely styled. The '84-'87 were nice also.

Reply to
Justin

Gimme the money and I will! I aint gonna be popping no wheelies on a chopper! A new stock engine at $2500 bucks is just fine for me. Cruising is all I'm interested in.

Reply to
Blah blah

Heh. Go ride an S&S motor >:)

Seriously, the extra $$$ even an S&S 89 or so costs is worth it for a nicer motor.

And hey - what fun is a chopper with a pussy motor in it? My friend with an 80" stock Fat Boy says it truely sucks not being able to keep up. And it SUCKS waiting every 5th light for him :/

(Hey, not my fault the throttle's so much fun to twist open all the way...)

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski

Maybe. I try not to think of 4 bangers in general. I've always hated 4 banger cars.

Oh yes. That thing.

IIRC, Honda had a concept 'pikup' that a) couldn't fit a 4X8 sheet of plywood in the back, and b) was not body on frame.

The Lincoln Blackwood flunked (a) too, but look how fast it died. Ok, granted I laugh when I see the chevy ads dumping RR ties into the bed from 10 feet up (that'd be a hole, Bob), but still, the big Three do pickups better than anyone else because, well, we USE them. At least some people still do, anyway...

The 3800 is a great motor. I hear it gets freaky high mileage, too. Even the 2.8 in my old ('87) Chevy wagon was good - it ran ran ran, and never blew up in 225,000 miles. Actually, I think it's STILL running out at a local airport as a tow car...

Oh sure they would.

No, just by the general public and the feds. There are plenty of small/light cars that do well enough in crashes, but people can't get over the 'smashed car' thing, and can't understand how and why crumple zones work. NHTSA has been beating the 'big car' drum because it's politically convinient, as opposed to pointing out that most 'drivers' out there can't drive for shit.

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski

With the rate their going trying to squeeze the power out of them their starting to get the same mpg as a 6 cyl but still fall short on torque and will never sound like a v6. I only look for 4 bangers for economy, not speed, sound, or hp. Still I say the ecotec beats out honda's 4 bangers.

I think they or toyota was going to make a fwd truck. Yeah... Um put something in the back and watch how far you get on wet level grass...

Yes the 3800 gets good gas mileage. Upwards of about 30mpg on a highway doing about 70mph or so with cruise set. The tranny on the 2.8 I had was a pos. Mileage gage stopped working around 61k then the tranny gave out sometime later. Engine still starts with a bump of the starter though.

Crumple zones work by slowing down the rate of deceleration. Instead of the energy being focused on you its channeled into the car. Do you want to hit a brick wall with just your tshirt on at 50mph or do you want some sheet metal to "compress/crumple" infront of you bringing the speed of the blow down? Either the car must "give" or your chest will. Not hard to understand.

Maybe he doesnt want to get his ass ran over by someone running a red light :P

If I was interested in speed I would buy a freak'n crotch rocket. I'm not going out there on 2 wheels to get my body busted up in a high speed wreck. Hell if triumphs werent getting so stupid in their prices I would buy a t120 bonneville and chop it. Btw does your friend have a acceleration pump on his carb?

Reply to
Blah blah

3 speed or 4? The THM125C actually wasn't bad, but the TC clutch setup was notorious for not unlocking when it should have. The 'fix' was unplugging it.

More like his bike can't move his ass for shit. It's a pain on the highway, too.

Yeah, but his motor sucks anyway :/

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski

What ever a 1988 regal had. Cant remember what it had but if you look them up on ebay theres a lot of them that say the odometer stopped at 60 some thousand.

Some port work might make his engine breath better. Not to hard to do on a harley so long as you have had experience porting heads. Some of the stock harley manifolds really sucked. Usually rough intake runners give you good low end torque but poor upper end hp. In the right hands any HD motor will do just as good if not better than a S&S. Just depends on who's going through it. Me? I could probably make a HD engine run really good but stock is all I want at this point in my life...

Reply to
Blah blah

Yeah, I really liked those too. I did buy a new Civic LX in '92 but never completely warmed up to the 'new' styling.

In '89, I bought a new CRX Si (technically a Civic) and it had a fantastic wrap-around 'cockpit' and included some of the best seats (although cloth) I've ever sat in. The late '80s were Honda's best styled cars, IMO. The CRX's exterior was a little funky (i.e. glass back end), but the interior was just fantastic. Even Accords (especially the LXi 'fast back' with pop-up headlights) were sharp.

I remember in '90-''91, allot of my co-workers had purchased new Hondas (mostly Accords, Preludes, and Integras) and the garage would be almost half full of sharp looking (IMO) Hondas and Acuras side-by-side. We didn't even know what "rice" was (apparently this disease hadn't reached Atlanta yet) and our cars were all completely stock (appearance and performance). We kept them up and enjoyed them for what they were.

How times have changed. Oh well.

Fit-and-finish aside, this is one of my favorite styled automobiles...

formatting link
And for the grand prize winner which will never be matched (foreign or domestic)...
formatting link

Reply to
Mark Gonzales

I had a 71 Vega. I bought oil by the gallon ... seriously. It also rusted out like the older honda's. I was just getting out of college ... I had to wear one set of cloths on the way to the interviews and change when I got there ... I was either sweating to death ... or if it rained ... it leaked in on me.

Reply to
ProfWdesk1

Heh.

I think it's more an issue of his bike just not having the omph. Mine's got a 95 inch motor, worked heads, 11.5:1 compression, cam, pipes, etc. His is stock save for a cam and pipes. And oh yeah, 15 cubes smaller, plus his bike's a bit heavier...

Reply to
Philip Nasadowski

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.