New '06 models

I had hoped that Saturn would have gotten on the hybrid (or any mileage improvement means) stick by now since they hinted at it many years ago with the supposedly hybrid VUE. Toyota will crush them next year when their hybrid Camry 6 banger comes out. Of course, this is just mho, but with the cost of gas rising what they do to their interiors while ignoring better mileage figures of the hybrids won't help Saturn's sales.

As GM sinks even lower.........

B~

My Tundra (Toyota) pickup with a small V8 gets 15-mpg's with a 27 gallon tank. I spent $55 on my last fill-up (only 22 gallons). Next year Toyota is coming out with an even bigger Tundra (I'm sure the mileage will drop too). So their hybrids cater to one segment of the market and also allow the continuation of vehicles like mine by maintaining the overall (total) mile per gallon ratings of Toyota's fleet.

Hybrids sound neat to me, however you have to ask yourself what are they going to do with all those batteries at the end of the life cycle's??? I'm not so sure it's such green-friendly technology after all - feels like (emotionally) a shell game.

I think most will agree GM has problems, but I don't think a hybrid Camary will crush them.

Maybe when my Tundra wears out Saturn will have finally come out with a pickup. A flat-8 mounted under the truck bed, smart-all-wheel-drive, polymer panels and made in Spring Hill!

snip

Has anyone seen the new cypress green yet? I'm hoping it's just a little darker than rainforest green.

ron 94 SL-1

No worries, hybrids cost to much and dont meet EPA numbers. GM always meets EPA numbers.

Holy $#*#!

15mpg is worse than the EPA city rating! I keep telling people Jap cars and trucks DO NOT meat their EPA ratings but no one seems to listen... A Chevy Silverado makes more power, has a larger displacment, huals more, and gets better gas mileage! Hence Japs cant make trucks. You would of been WAY better off with a Chevy Colorado Jonnie. I'm sure it would of hauled what ever you needed to haul and the 5cyl gets 23mpg on the highway. I just wish the 5cyl came with a 5 speed manual option.

Batteries can be recycled. The problem with Hybrids is they are a money pit! You spend more money than you could ever possibly save in fuel cost. GM's problem, along with everyone else, is they expect to have "RECORD SALES" every year... The market is to flooded! I cant see replacing my 98 Bonneville for another 10 years. (not that I would ever buy new)

Btw you hear about the Toyota(or honda?) hybrid stalling problem? I think its been fixed but I'm sure it will return as these things become more neglected with time... You also dont want to see my bill I'll be charging for fixing these things in the years to come. >:)

If GM's stupid enough to keep saturating the market they may do that... In the mean time consider looking into a Colorado.

Hybrids aren't big sellers, nd even the optimists are now saying they won't get much more than 10% of the total market...

In real life, hybrids just don't get that much better mileage. I bet Toyota could have just taken the Prius's laughable 70hp motor, put it in an Echo, gotten nearly the same EPA numbers. But it wouldn't have sold because it'd be seen as what the Prius really is - a shitty gutless Toyota.

*ding!* They don't make economic sense. If you drive high miles, you're mostly highway - Hybrids suck there. If you don't, the costs NEVER outweight the savings, especially in normally hot or cold climates where the engine runs all the time. It's the same reason why those $1000 front load eco washers aren't worth it - you'll never save that much water/electricity over the 4 year lifespan of them (a better idea - make appliances that last 20 years, you'll save more energy)

Which one? The Prius is a buggy car, and a pretty lethargic one at that.

GM's biggest issue now is interior fit/finish, and lack of a nice RWD sedan platform or two. And B-O-R-I-N-G styling....

I haven't seen any new colors yet, they should start appearing soon.

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics of the hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that Saturn has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not found a way to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

marx404

I can't get past those arched eyebrows (fender lines) on the Colorado/Canyon - same for the new Tacoma - yuk.

But it's up 2 mpg's from the '04's (grin). The '05's have 282hp/325lbs, and it's total overkill for trips to the landfill or taking the dogs to the vet. It did bring home a new BBQ from Home Depot over the holiday - so I guess the extra hp and torque came in handy!

I have been kinda interested in a boat to pull - but so far the money is just not there to support and this old house needs waaaay too much work before spending/borrowing that kinda of dollars.

The tech who works on our fork trucks etc, told me Toyota's suck fuel. But I really don't drive much, so mpg's isn't an issue (yet).

Objectively I think Toyota's best effort was their standard size (small) pickup. The 4 banger was just awesome from stories and people I've spoke with. I just didn't want another small pickup - I got rid of a 20 year old Isuzu that would NOT die.

We'll see how my V8 with 9,000 valves, 20 cams and variable valve timing does. I've read something about a piston slap issue, but don't know how common that is - of course there's a whole tirade going on the the GM camp with one of the V8's and piston slap too. Whatever...

I originally wanted a Titan with more hp, but I kept reading about inconsistent build quality and I didn't want to play roulette with my money.

As it was the '05 Tundra has an improved autobox (5th/OD was a prob in older Tundras) as well as braking issues (gee, what were they thinking).

This is my first Toyota - I still miss the old Saturn and the dealer.

Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what Saturn is supposed to be since it's been mainlined like other GM products. Not so different anymore.

Do you know what ever happened to the rear suspension issue on the VUE? And what's the consensus with the Honda V6 they're using? I read it's a bastard to service (regarding plug changes).

Hey I like the side profile of the Colorados & Canyons...

You're joking right? :P That reminds me, you see that truck commercial that goes something like "now that the new tundra/Tacoma has more power what will you do?" The one guy says "get my tools back" and so he rips down a garage door and grabs a small tool chest... All I could do is laugh at how unimpressive that commercial was because EVERYTHING done in that commercial could be done with my "carrrrrrr". The stuff I've had to haul and the stuff my father hauls is what trucks are ment for. 2500lbs vertical mills and other large machinery, motorcycles, engines, and everything else that would break most wanna be trucks. You'll often hear people who drive the heavy duty trucks, like a

2500 w/Duramax, say their truck is dumber than a box of rocks. Why's that? Because it has no idea if its pulling a load or not. Like it aint even there... Little or no effect on gas mileage... I know my dads 2500 5.7L always seemed to run and handle better when it's hauling a load.

Yeah but other than sticking 300 pounds in the back of them what do you have?

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I would like for them to go back to a simple line of inexpensive cars like the S-series but with RWD. $12K base to $18K tops. Ecotecs would of been great in a S-series.

Vue recalled, all should be pretty much fixed by now I think. Marx might know more about it. Honda's have always been a bastard to service. Everythings in the way of everything. There are only a handful of engines in production that I will encourage people to buy. Everyone wants to look at styling first, I look at the powertrain first. They must think I'm pushing them only because I make money off of them or something. I'll make my money either way. I just want to make it easier on "myself" which is usually easier on your wallet...

They've been talking about their Saturn hybrid for years, but still nothing and I doubt if anything will occur in the next few years. The fanfare would precede it for months, but GM is silent so I doubt if they are really trying to do anything to circumvent Toyota or second place Honda in the hybrid war. Supposedly Toyota is licensing their first generation hybrid technology to Ford which will keep Toyota at the head of the pack for some time if American car maker's cannot figure out how to do it as Toyota has.

For the naysayers, look over the Prius forum. One guy has the record of 111 mpg on his hybrid. Beats my neighbor's Ram truck's 9 mpg Hemi all to hell. Neighbor bitched about paying $150 to drive from one town and back in California. Try going to a Toyota dealer and buying one. Ours gets maybe

12 hybrid cars in and they are gone within the week while others (Camry, Corolla, etc. sit on the lot). Every time the price jumps 20 cents, the cars sell out.

Fwiw, I test drove the Prius a few months ago and was surprised at the power delivered from the electric motors (very similar to the Camry), but my test car's LCD screen showed 48 mpg which makes me a novice in controlling the gas engine's cut-in. The CA warranty had the battery as a sever year free replacement due to the battery being assigned to the smog-side of the equation. Still, it would be costly to replace outside of the warranty but the dealer insists for high mileage drivers it won't matter. I've heard their odd transmission is very costly too ($9000 or so) and only available out of Japan. It really is a high tech car and maybe will run into some high-tech bills as well in time.

I prefer the Ram truck truth be known. Even insurance between the two (Prius vs. Ram) was only $20 or so (about $1200 normal one year from So. CA Auto Club for either per my checking quotes). However, shoving $150 a day for commuting/travel gas in a Dodge RAM sadly leaves me no option for one. Need to hit at least 30 mpg to feel comfortable with the gas and commutes I do.

B~

Does the 2006 4 door ION sedan have a fold flat front passenger seat or is that still just in the 2 door? ron

I haven't seen any new colors yet, they should start appearing soon.

As far as hybrids, do check out Saturnfans.com where there are pics of the hybris VUE that they have been working on. Supposedly, I hear that Saturn has been silently working on hybrids for years, but just has not found a way to make them efficient, safe, reliable or affordable.

marx404

About the only hybrid I'd be seriously looking at (provided it hits production) is the Mercury Meta 1. Diesel electric has been around for ages (just look at you local railway yard) and, at least in large scale, it seems to get the job done.

I think that a better choice these days, provided the north american regulators get on board, is ultra low sulphur diesel. There are some killer sweet diesel engines in europe that I'd take over a hybrid any day...but they'd die a fairly quick and horribly painful death with the garbage we call diesel over here.

As for the trucks....I've driven a good number of all the ones mentioned here at work. The Colorados/Canyons are nice, though they are a medium sized (as compared to the old S-10 small) truck. I find the Dakotas bigger, but they sound tinny and don't get as nice mileage with the small 8 as the I-5 does. The Tundra I had wasn't bad, but I have to agree, for a full size, go domestic....we really have done a better job with them....not to say that the toyota won't go on for years and years...it is just that we have better idea of what a truck is and what it is used for.

Cheers,

Michael Halliwell

Our Maytag Neptune front loader is 9 years old now and the only repair it needed was a free upgrade provided by Maytag to replace circuit board and provide a door seal with drain. Major advantage to front loaders is that you can wash a king size comforter without it floating in the washer.

Got a Kenmore top load set about the same age, looking to replace with front loader in the new few years. I've only replaced a level switch in the washer to date, but am due for something in the dryer as it's starting to get noisy. I'm currently buying the Tide cold water wash concentrate thinking washing in cold will save a couple of bucks (we have a rooftop solar water heater, but it's got a 9,000 watt electric backup to keep the temp up on cloudy days - seems expensive to operate).

??

Explain then why Toyota cannot produce those hybrids fast enough. Sure didn't stop their Lexus hybrid nor Toyota's reluctance to build a new plant for their Camry 2006 hybrid or the Outback hybrid SUV.

??

So the guy in the Toyota Prius forum who is getting 111 mpg is wasting gas? Surely you jest. Even with it getting a wasteful 49-50 mpg (which seems average) it still beats any other thing out there.

Try driving one if you think it's gutless. I have driven it and it accelerates like hell with the electrics. Local dealer sends his salespeople to LA over a mountain called the Grapevine from Central Valley and got it up to 104 mph with 4 people in it.

What a load. If you look at the mileage numbers of some of the used 2001 models, they have over 100,000 miles on them. What loss? If you tend to toss a vehicle every 2-3 years maybe, but if you hold onto it for 5-7 you'll come out ahead. Besides, what stops a person from buying a pickup, say a Dodge Ram Hemi verses a cheaper Nissan Titan (a $10,000 difference) when the Titan gets better mileage? You could say you're wasting money on the Dodge couldn't you? Paying a lease, for what amounts as a rental, could be seen as wasteful too. To be fair, you need to compare it to an equivalent model like a non-hybrid Prius. Remember the base price is around $21,000 or similar to the Camry, but loading it up with all the electronic goodies (GPS, etc) runs it, and any other model, up really quick to around $28,000.

Besides, the fuel savings "alone" on the hybrid is worth something to future generations, regardless of cost. If the price of gas rises, then you'' come out ahead if you hold onto the vehicle until 100,000 miles or more. A three-fold mpg efficiency and the eco-savings negates the price of any non-hybrid. Not to mention those with a $2-3K Gas-Guzzler Tax" imposed (usually applied to the higher priced exotics over $70,000).

B~

Yes. It was a software problem and has been corrected.

In time, the hybrid's price will fall. Same hold true for just about anything. Try and buy a mechanical watch cheaper than an electronic.

I agree on that one. Always loved Ford's styling, just their lousy engines and powertrains I had problems with.

B~

The dryer is probably easy to fix. Post the model number on alt.home.repair and you will probably get the help you need on dissasmbly and parts required. If you are talking an electric dryer though, Kenmore has a best buy according to Consumer Reports that sells for around $350 so repairing old one may not be worth it even if easy.