Saturn VS Honda

let me get this, you had one make and model, and never had any problems, and now you want to try out a totally new maker's product?

Do you have money to burn? Stick with what works, especially a car maker.

hth,

tom @

Quite frankly if you are happy with the Honda get another. My parents bought a L300 Saturn wagon several months ago and I have driven it quite a bit. Honda is well known for its tight steering. I do not believe you would be happy with the vague steering of at least this Saturn particularly when pointing the wheel straight. There is no road feel at all when the wheel is centered.

Saturns are not as trouble free as Hondas, but they're still darned good, and cheap to buy and fix. Mileage of the S-Series was excellent -- I've gotten 40 MPG at 70 MPH in my mom's SW2 -- but the ION has gained over 400 LB, is bigger overall, and has a bigger engine, so I doubt it will do as well. Frankly I think it's a bit of a junker compared to the competition. A Civic, Corolla, or Focus is a much nicer car. The S-Series was relatively much better when it came out.

Most cars will go 300k with little trouble these days. I'd just keep the Honda until it looks and feels so shabby you can't stand it any more.

Matt O.

I got about 32mpg on a recent trip in my new 2004 Saturn coupe and that was in rather hilly terrain at 75-80mph (cruise control on most of the trip between Irvine CA and Laughlin NV ), so it isn't that bad. If the original poster wants to look at getting an ION he should definately consider the leather interior, it makes a huge difference as far as comfort and overall feel of the car.

This is my 3rd Saturn and I have never had a speck of trouble with any of them, a very reliable car IMHO.

Or starts belching blue smoke as Hondas tend to do after awhile.

30+ mpg Highway isnt hard for any modern car to get. City is usually the killer. Also there are big differences between auto's and manuals. Manuals will give you the best. Late model F-body's with V8's and 6 speeds get superb gas mileage. No drag to speak of and hell of a lot of low end torque from the engine for cruising in 6th gear. Higher octane and insurance prices are the only reason I dont drive one... :(

Buy a VUE V6 which has Honda V-Tech engine. Best of both worlds (sort of).

We have a 2000 Saturn LS2 (SAAB V6 and 400 lb 4-speed auto) and 2 Chevys with 3100 V6 and 4-speed autos. We mostly just drive; repairs are few and far between. Can't find anything to fix on the 2000 Malibu or the Corsica (with 250,000 km on it).

My neighbour just bought an Accura with 70,000 km on it and had to replace the timing chain. Any ride in any Honda I have had was like an old farm truck; rough and noisy.

There is no comparison between Saturn and Honda, except the huge additional price for a Honda. And all I get for that several thousand dollars is a ride in an old truck!

Yes, I know there are Honda die-hards out there, but as I approach retirement I appreciate a nice quiet, smooth ride.

David

Hondas are reliable, which is a good thing if you've ever seen a repair bill on one.

Oh yeah, they can't build an automatic transmision that's worth a sack of shit.

Honda gets

Honda gets

According to all the usual industry surveys, the Malibu is actually the most reliable car sold in N. America -- even better than a Corolla or Civic. Then again all of 'em are pretty good these days. Personally, I'd rather have something with better seats, like a Saturn.

Matt O.

32 MPG on the open road in a modern small car simply stinks. A Corolla or Civic will do nearly 40. A BMW 3 Series can do 34 MPG, despite being much larger and heavier, and having 50% more horsepower. Heck, my '85 325e with over 300k on it did that well. The ION has not advanced technologically at all since the original S-Series.

We've had 3 in our family too, and they've been mostly trouble free. The only problem we've all had were alternators, which go out every 70k like clockwork, and window regulators on an L-Series. Lots of others seem to have the same problems. At least the alternators were cheap to fix, probably half the cost of other makes'.

Just from reading these boards I've learned that Saturns are the oil burning champs of the modern age. My brother's dealership (where he worked for 3 years) has seen the same thing. While there are many S-cars with half a million miles on them, there are also plenty that needed new engines. The new engines in the ION are probably better -- I hope so.

I still think Saturn has lost its edge. The competition is better these days, even for the money. If you need a larger car, you can still score a great deal on an L.

Matt O.

Yep; I've had to replace the driver's side (most frequently used) window regulator, and I've replaced the battery twice now, with the service advisor claiming that the "generator" was also bad and had to be replaced (both times). The second time was too coincidental for my tastes, so I demanded to see the evidence that the "generator" was bad. Voltage was okay, diode was okay, and output current seemed okay, though I don't have a good feeling for how high it should be. At any rate, I decided against replacing the "generator". Service advisor warned me that I'd just drain the new battery, and even put it in writing on the service order. Here I am, a year later, still running with that allegedly bad "generator". Battery hasn't been drained at all.

I thought mileage was more a function of weight and aerodynamics rather than technology. The ION is more than 300 pounds heaver than the S, and bigger, so it seems obvious that it would get worse milage.

70 ? boy are you lucky. I only got 31 on each of my first 2.

I though the problem was the rings rather than the engine in general. Anyone know if Saturn is using better rings these days?

It sort of looks like the S was beginers luck, Although I sort of regret not getting an 4 cylinder L wagon.

You can stick that Ecotec in a Fiero with a manual trans and get over

45 mpg easy. Small engines in big cars or high drag cars can get overworked. Big engines in small cars hardly get worked. There is a balance that must be met for longevity and MPG. So a small engine in a small car is good for mpg and a big engine for a big car is good for mpg. There are many factors in MPG but people dont tell you all of them when they claim "this is what I get". Ok so the question becomes is it a manual or auto? Is it a coupe or sedan? Do you drive doing the speed limit or do you run 80mph? Do you wax it or not? Are you 130 lbs or are you 300 lbs? Are you the only one in the car or do you have 3 other fat people riding with you? Do you live in the mountains or flat lands? Do you have the trunk loaded down with junk or ....... You get the point. Not everything gets posted to a newsgroup.

This has more to with habits IMO. You batteries become to discharged.

Ok... First off. THE ECOTEC IS NOT THE OLD 1.9L! It has NOTHING to do with the previous 4cyl. Just because an engine burns oil it doesnt mean REPLACE IT! With the 1.9 it means your oil rings are either gummed up or loss their tension. Also Saturn does not "BUILD" engines. They are all outsourced. The Ecotecs and the 3.0's are German Opel based engines, the

1.9's originate from England. England has almost always built cars/engines that had to be "tinkered" with like MG's. The later 1.9 (not sure at which point) dont have the ring problems iirc and not all the older 1.9 burn oil. The Ecotecs are by far probably the best 4 cylinders on the market now.

So long as you got one with a manual trans but I cant recall any L300's with manuals. A automatic L Wagon would overwork that 4cyl I would think.

Btw I have a car that probably totalled 4000lbs on a recent trip that has a 205hp 3800 II engine that got 28mpg running mostly 75mph. I consider that more than acceptable given the weight, speed, and ever increasing hilly terrain towards the destination.

What kind of habits? My '93 SL2 with 137K miles never needed an alternator replacement. Replaced 2 batteries over 11 years. Are you saying failed alternators are a result of frequent heavy use of the battery without the car running?

As a 1.9L oil burner lottery loser, and new owner of an ION2, that's good to hear.

Bill Davis

Or frequent driving with bad batteries. Few look at the battery as a 'wear item', and fewer replace it on a regular schedule, though there's convincing evidence that it's at least somewhat useful on saturns :)

I don't think Saturn alternators are any more/less defective than any other GM ones, rather that they're marginal for the application.

Beats me - mine leaks more oil than it burns. Some 1.9s were actually decent, I guess. Or, built on a wednesday?

You have obviously never driven in California. You climb to 5000ft, then go down a bit and then up another 1000ft down to 900ft etc. all at 80+ mph, 32mpg is pretty good. Maybe if driving in, say Iowa or Michigan it might not be good to get 32mpg but it's pretty good in California.

I have never seen a Saturn belch blue smoke, or one stuck at the side of the road. Fords and Jaguars seem to have a lock on that.

I have no complaints. I liked my L-series but the leasing company wanted too much money for me to purchase it at the end of the lease and I couldn't get an L with leather interior. What actually lead me to the L-series to begin with was the trunk, the S just didn't have a big enough trunk. The ION is pretty decent in that respect.

To be fair I don't think that Matt O'Toole comprehended the fact that I was driving in mountains at 75-80mph. The trip from Irvine CA to Laughlin NV is up (I guess the max is about 4500-5000ft and the min is

900ft) and down for 300 miles, most of it highway, but (and anybody that has made the trip can say) there is also some stop and go as you fight your way out of Southern California along the 91 freeway. I thought 32mpg was pretty good. I had my wife and a suitcase in the car.