Saturn vs Pontiac

You're talking about a 3400 (3.4L) Though it is a older pushrod motor it makes 205 lb. ft of torque which is more than the current 2.2L Ecotec. However I would much rather own and work on an GM's Ecotec than any of GM's 60deg motors. Grand Ams also were being equiped with GM's Ecotecs in 02. The ram air GA, although heaver, will likely out run the Ion in a quarter mile. (people buy hp, but drive with torque)

Being that Saturn and Pontiac

Marx you should know better than to make a broad based generalization like that. You're talking about "one" Pontiac, the cheapest Pontiac, not the entire fleet. Most Pontiacs will run circles around anything else on the road if not pace with it.

Well like I said, (and no generalization intended, just idle conversation) I am impressed with the Pontiacs that I have seen. This includes the Grand Prix, GTA and Grand AM, but again, I was suprised at the lack of handling and what my expectations of power were from thier engines (of course I am an old fool who remembers what a REAL GTO or Grand Prix felt like, lol). However - I absolutely was head over heels with the wide-track GTP, wow, what a car! Good handling and power. I guess I really meant to say that in the future I hope to see more of a mix of Pontiac and Saturn; looks and performance.

marx404

The new supercharged 3800 Series III in the Grand Prix's make the following

260 hp @ 5200 rpm. 280 lb.-ft @ 3600 rpm.

and they get 19mpg city and 28mpg highway.

Other than the extra cost for 92 octane I'm not sure why they're not selling twice as many!

One thing I cant understand is Pontiac dropping the Bonneville this summer. First they downsized the beast till it was about the size of a Grand Prix, then they come out with the GTO and claim they arent selling enough of the Bonnevilles. Well YEAH when you make everything the same size and nearly the same price its kinda hard to choose the Bonneville when the GTO is RWD. Plus anyone that owns a Bonneville from 92-99 is still driving it... The damn things wont die! The SSE's/SLE's and SSEi's had great handling, damn near sports car like handling in a 3700lb car. I guess the GTO's Pontiacs flagship car now...

for now until the G6 picks up in popularity. btw- speculation has it that Mr. Lund says that there will be many similarities in the G6 and the new Aura, one being the 3 part sliding glass roof panels. Sweet, huh?

thanks for the info, looks like Saturn and Pontiac will the the new life breathers into the GM line for the next few yrs.

marx404

Theres always been life in GM. They just dont focus on upgrading every make and model at "one" given time. The G6 uses GM's 60 degree based motors. I wouldnt want to own let alone work on one of those, everything is badly placed. Give me a 3800 any day. Besides that the G6's 3500 is built in Mexico and the 3800 is built in Detroit. The 3800 also has more torque and they get about the same gas mileage.

------------------------------------------------------------- Base G6 - $20,675 - 3.5L V6 200HP 220Torque 3420Lbs 22/32 mpg

3.05 Final Gear Drive

Base GP - $24,960 - 3.5L V6 200HP 230Torque 3484Lbs 20/30 mpg

3.05 Final Gear Drive (2.93 optional)

------------------------------------------------------------- Damn near twins except when you work on them.

On another note, the thing that has really impressed me is the new Chevrolet Colorado's. They're a medium sized truck but get very impressive gas mileage. I strongly suggest anyone looking for a light duty pickup to check those out. Forget the Honda and Toyota wannabe fullsize trucks. If you're looking at those then its obviouse you really dont need a real truck and the Colorado will be enough to fill those rare needs without eating up gas money as a daily driver.

I tend to agree, to a limited extent, on the relationship between Pontiac and Saturn products. Both have existed as test beds and development platforms for GM across the boards. However, I look at the relationship between Pontiac, Chevrolet, and Saturn as being more like brothers sharing many common links. But, Saturn seems to be the "redheaded stepchild" of the lot. To explain that in more detail, Saturn gets less hype and media attention than the other more established nameplates. Prime example is Redline, which got limited advertising and attention. But, a little later comes the Cobalt SS and 'Whoopee!' it's the greatest thing since sliced bread! It's like Ray Charles releasing a good song, and a few months later comes Pat Boone with a cover version and full media blowout including a spot on Ed Sullivan.

Sorry, it just kinda gets to me...or maybe it's a lack fiber in my diet...I don't know.

Anyway....yeah. On that distant cousin thing with Pontiac and Saturn...yeah, I can see that.

GM may kill off brand

Exec says Buick, Pontiac need to meet sales goals or else.

But why does Pontiac feel the need for all the rippled plastic on their cars?

Chris

Ribbed for her pleasure?!

Brad

*yawn*. Buick's been on death row for years now. Selling cars to old farts is Toyota's job now anyway...

Agreed! Gone are the days of Grand National, GNX, and muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s. The brand is tired, old, and has a loyal clientele dying or too old to drive anymore. They might be able to revive the brand if they focus on pimps and rappers. Bling up those big old cars, and launch a new campaign! Spinners and gold accents standard! Get 50 cent as the spokesperson , and every suburban 16 year old boy would be beggin their daddy for one! A rebirth, and a whole new brand loyalty group. Or, they could just sh#* can the old dead weight and save us all a lot of grief.

Yeah, kill it.

Or go back to their roots. What if they brought back something like the Grand National built around the Pontiac GTO but with slightly different styling. They could add a turbo and make something so awesome people stand up and take notice.

Chris

Now theres an idea! With a turbo charged 3800! I'd buy that.

Great idea....therefore, they'll never do it. It a Murphy's Law Corollary, applicable to General Motors specifically. Anything, that is a great idea will in fact never make it to production. If it should somehow make it to production, it will be ruined or discontinued the moment that they realize that it is 'just to damn good.'

Chevy is already doing that. It's called the "Xtreme". Basically a Blazer or S10 with some rice body kit. Same vehicle, but it's the "Xtreme" version. Appeals to little white cappers that think a pickup is supposed to be lowered.