Starting/idle problem

1995 SW2 DOHC auto a/c @184,000

Problem: Starts hard when cold, must floor accelerator, blows blue-gray smoke for about five seconds after start. Will not start at all when hot; just cranks and barely fires. Acts like it's flooded. Runs fine when it does start, although idle speed is high (@1,100 rpm on the brakes, as when at a red light; unloaded idle speed fluctuates between 2,500 and 500, before settling at about 1,200; previously, idled at 600-700). Occasional bursts of rpm to 3,000-3,500, not dependent on speed (happening on daily basis now; did have eight or ten such incidents in the last couple of months). Does not "down idle" after reaching operating temperature. Fuel mileage off about 20%. Some slight fuel leakage around #3 injector (due to overpressure/excess flow in fuel rail?).

Recent work: Replaced water pump and belt tensioner 10 days ago (Thu). Currently running cooling system flush and water; will replace with coolant/water mix later this week. Cleaned engine at U-Wash-It last Sunday (allowed engine to cool @30min before; U-W-I is less than two miles from the house). Next oil change due in 500 miles; not losing oil. Problem began on Tuesday after engine wash, no problems on Sunday or Monday.

Troubleshooting to date: Replaced spark plugs (due replacement in two weeks anyway); plugs slightly fouled, probably due to excessively rich mix. Checked all accessible electrical and vacuum connections; all appear dry and tight. Serpentine belt tension good; belt scheduled for replacement after I get the current problem corrected. Unseated injectors and cleaned in place with carburetor cleaner, also cleaned injector bores; unable to remove fuel rail due to frozen throttle cable bracket bolts (plan to replace all injector seals after I get the bolts broken loose at a machine shop). Fuel line connections good. Air filter dry and reasonably clean. Cleaned throttle body and butterfly valve with carburetor cleaner. Both air filter and fuel filter scheduled for replacement next month.

Items eliminated: Internal engine (rings, valves, etc.) since engine runs relatively smoothly (no missing or stumbling). Plugs, plug wires, coils, etc. Fuel feed system (except as noted below).

Possible problems, based on information from the Haynes repair book for this model: Oxygen sensor on exhaust manifold. Fuel pressure regulator on fuel rail.

Anything else I should look at? I'm leaning toward a bad O2 sensor as the culprit, based on my limited understanding of the fuel injector system and the information in the Haynes, but at $70+ for a replacement part, I'd rather not unless absolutely necessary - can't afford it until after payday anyway.

Reply to
William Hughes
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If you haven't already, please read the codes before replacing any more parts.

Instructions are at

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Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code Information, and Diagnostic Trouble CodeChart for 1st Gen Saturns. Or, people posting here have said you can stopby any Auto Zone and have them read the codes for no charge. If that still doesn't shed any light on your problem, consider having a diagnosis done by your local Saturn. If it saves you from buying one part you don't need, it has paid for itself.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]

Reply to
Lane

Pencilled in for Wednesday on the way home from work.

Reply to
William Hughes

The first thing I would check is coolant temp sensor. If its stuck in the cold position it will keep the engine rich and idle high all the time(trying to warm the car up).

Reply to
BANDIT2941

Hmm... possible. That would account for it not "kicking down" after it's been running for a while. And it would tie-in to the water pump replacement and radiator flush - possibly some crud got into somewhere it shouldn't. Also, $8 is a lot better than $70.

Thanks for the tip. The Usenet RPOE* comes to the rescue again!

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Reply to
William Hughes

That's what I'm betting on. Let us know how it works out.

Reply to
BANDIT2941

Removed the connectors for both sensors near the EGR, cleaned everything with carburetor cleaner, let dry and reconnected. The car now starts when hot, or at least, warm. Still high-idling, though. I have a couple of things I'm going to look at after it cools (just got back from the grocery).

First, I'm going to disconnect the battery and let the PCM reset itself.

Then there is another sensor of some kind on the front of the transmission housing; I'm going to disconnect and clean that.

Finally, I'm going to take another look at the #3 injector and see if I can seat it better.

Oh - I also have to drain the cooling system of flush/water mix and refill it with coolant/water.

Reply to
William Hughes

That would probably be you vehicle speed sensor.

Reply to
BANDIT2941

There are three sensors that are identical The CTS ATS and Transmision Temperature Sensor !

Reply to
justastreekin

They can be tested with an ohm meter !

Reply to
justastreekin

AutoZone will read your codes out for no charge. Sounds like either the O2 sensor or coolant temp sensor to me. Could be the throttle position sensor, but they usually just cause the rpm's to hunt.

Key here is the smoke. You're running rich, so suspect the O2 or CTS.

Reply to
Earl43P

Local AZ didn't have a reader for Saturns.

Definately figured on the rich mix; gas mileage dropped 50%. Changed out the CTS on Thursday; seems to have corrected 90% of the problems. I have an injector O-ring kit on order, but that'll have to wait until I get the throttle cable bracket bolts broken loose.

Reply to
William Hughes

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