Edelbrock?AFB R2 Hybrid Tuning/long

I realize this topic may have a very limited interest but it was a good Avanti day and I thought I would share what I've learned. Some of you may recall that I mated the top of an R2 AFB to a 600 Edelbrock. Over the past few years I've never been happy with the overall performance of the car. I have 3 other cars, non-Studes, that have E Carbs on them and with each one I've been able to tune the carbs to a point that the responsiveness and acceleration rivaled my fuel injected modern iron. The Avanti never "felt" right and had a sever power drop and mis-fire at about 4500 rpm. Even before it reached this critical point it just didn't pull as smoothly as my other carbed cars.

Last summer after months of experimenting with jetting and timing, I decided to devise a way to hold the air valve in the secondaries open. I may not be calling it by it's proper name but it's the flap above the secondary throttle plates that keeps the car from bogging when the secondaries are snapped open. It allows the engine to determine how much air it needs by opening as the vacuum below becomes greater than the air pressure above. To my surprise the high speed miss went away and the car accelerated better. I drove it that way all summer but on a couple of drives in the cooler weather the lack of a functioning valve was very apparent, compounded by having blocked the exhaust crossover, the car bogged terribly even at less than full throttle.

A couple of weeks ago I took the bottom half of my old AFB and did a visual comparison between it and an Edelbrock 600 parts carb I have. First thing I noticed was that the air valve on the AFB lays flat and closes the secondary holes completely while the E carb's valve is already partially open. Makes sense for a HP carb to get the air moving faster but I wondered if the partial opening allowed compressed air to build up under the valve and keep it from opening or making it flutter. So I ground enough off the valves weights to allow it to close fully.

I also noticed that the primary venturi clusters on the E carb had a shorter air bleed tube that didn't reach up into the AFB top. I changed out the E venturis and put the old AFB units in. While I had the top off I put in a larger .110 needle and seat and # 33 as opposed to #31 pump nozzles. The AFB appeared to have larger ones than the E carb. I jetted down the primaries from the .101 that I was running and went back to the .98 and

75/47 rods that the E carb comes with as standard jetting. I switched the .101's to the secondaries so I have the same amount of fuel as I had before under full throttle but a leaner cruise and part throttle A/F considering the state of gas prices.

Initial results are very encouraging. There was a slight drizzle this morning when I was doing my test driving so I didn't go crazy but the car pulled cleanly to 5000 rpm, no miss no flattening. The real success is in the throttle response and the nice smooth pull throughout the rpm range. I think the AFB Venturis are responsible for this.

I almost gave up on the AFB/Edelbrock hybrid and went with a different carb hat to match the blower to the Edelbrock but I liked the stealthy look of the Hybrid too much to give up without one more experiment. Glad I did.

Ernie R2 R5388

Reply to
Ernie Rizzolo
Loading thread data ...

I'll be putting my R2 setup on my 64 Commander after our local meet, i have a dave T-Bow R2 carb, hope all goes well, never had a supercharged car before. looking forward to the challange,

Bob Whiten Wagonmaster

formatting link

Reply to
Wagonmaster

Ernie, I have the same type of setup on my R-2 Lark.I used an Edelbrock Marine 750 CFM carb with the top from my stock R-2 carb on it. I have not been able to get my setup quite right either. I've tried different jets and metering rods. I actually removed the air valve from the secondaries. I thought that maybe the secondaries weren't opening. My car also seemed to flatten out around 4,500 RPM. I'm putting the stock R-2 carb back on it. I'll try it out and use that for a baseline. I learned a few things about the differences between a stock R-2 carb v.s.a non blower type AFB. The venturis for the R-2 carb are different from the others. The venturis are much shorter compared to the regular AFB. The casting is different. You could make an non R-2 type fit, but the factory went to the trouble of making them different. There must be a good reason why. The chamfering of the throttle body ,for the primary throttle bores are quite different . You can tell the difference between the R-2 and the others quite easily. They were obviously machined to work better with the specific venturis for that carb. I went to the website

formatting link
for information before I modified my Edelbrock. I'm not happy with the results. I'll try the stock R-2 Carb tomorrow and see what happens. I also have another R-2 throttle body, I got it from my brother. I had intended to rebuild it. The problem is that it is missing the primary venturi for the drivers side. Without the correct venturis, it isn't a real R-2 carb. As far as I know the airhorn of the R-2 and the other stude AFBs are the same. The factory went to alot of extra trouble to machine the throttle body on the R-2 carb. When you look at one from the bottom and compare it to a non blower AFB there are a lot of obvious differences. There is also a hole drilled in the bottom of the carb , between the airvalve and the float bowl. I was considering adding that hole to the Marine carb and see if it helps any. Keep us posted on your results, especially what works. I enjoyed seeing your car at the Garden State Chapter zone meet, Beachwood,N.J. in Sept. I want to hear the car runs 13's at Englishtown and gets over 20 mpg [it has an overdrive automatic folks]and looks good doing it too. Thanks Joe Flannery

Reply to
jflan63

Joe,

Hope to see you again this summer...I would think a good R2 AFB would perform as well as the Edelbrock. Especially since so many of its pieces are now in my E carb. The tops are different between R1 and R2. There are a couple of holes in the top outside of the bonnet which under boost will push fuel/air out of the carb and not back into the motor I think the R1 venturis are designed for those outside holes. On the R2 carb a lot of the mods to the underside of the body are to pull boost pressure away from the throttle shaft openings to keep them from leaking.

I mentioned when I saw you at the show that I though the marine carb may be part of the problem. I just don't think they are set up for variety of rpm ranges an automobile operates in.

I did get a chance to really push it Saturday. Smooth and constant acceleration to the redline and around town it's extremely crisp and responsive. I don't quite think it's a 13 second car though (G) but there may be a trip to Island over the next 6 months and I hope it will dip into the 14's.

Reply to
Ernie Rizzolo

I have a new E-carb, 600 CFM and a electronic choke (not hooked up, this is Arizona). I have a old Stude stock AFB somewhere and a Caddy

390 AFB I can put my hands on. I want to put the top from the Caddy AFB on the E-Carb to use my freshly replated R-1 air cleaner. Any pearls of wisdom on the swap. I have little to no carb skills, like jetting, etc... I have successfully rebuilt a few AFB's. Any help would be appreciated.

Kelly

Reply to
kelmbaker

I would use the rods and springs from the Edelbrock for sure, if you do not swap the rods who knows what kind of jetting you will end up with... I'm not saying it will run 100% but at least you will know what your baseline is...

nate

Reply to
N8N

Joe, I've been working on an R2 carb for the past 3 months or 2 years depending on your perspective. Anyway my carb was also missing one of the correct primary venturis (circle track racing modification?). Working with Dave Thiebault he sent me a pair from a Pontiac AFB that are nearly identical. I'm hoping they will be close enough. If I ever get the local carb guy to get the thing back together and it tests out ok and when I get it on the engine and get the super hooked up......then I'll have an idea about how well they work. Tim K.

Reply to
GTtim

The easiest thing may be to use a newer base plate with your R1 top, I've read where others have done this with no other mods.

Reply to
Ernie Rizzolo

Reply to
GTtim

Tim, If you are interested ,I could take some digital pictures of the R-2 style primary venturi and the regular stude AFB venturi.I took my Edelbrock hybid off of the car yesterday. I installed the stock R-2 carb back on the car. The Edelbrock carb as Ernie stated doesn't have those air bleed tubes that exit through a tiny hole on the air horm assembly. I could also take a picture of the Edelbrock venturis too, just for comparison sake.

Kelly, It sounds like you have an Edelbrock 1406 carb. You should be able to just swap the airhorn from the stude and just bolt it on to the Edelbrock throttle body. There is one long screw in the back on the stude airhorn that the Edelbrock doesn't use. I just took a short screw and epoxied it into the hole . I was able to use the electric choke with the stude airhorn assembly.This is a nice easy job to do. I like doing stuff like this outside on the picnic table . With plenty of sunlight.Sit down and relax, it won't take you much time at all. The

1406 should be fine just the way it is. I had one on my truck. The performance and mileage were fine.

I took my Lark out for a couple of rides yesterday. It doesn't want to idle after it gets all warmed up. I was thinking about why it does that with either the hybid carb or the stock R-2 carb.It even did that in february when it was quite cold. Studebakerman,Pekka Polvinnen from Finland ,was with me. I was driving him back to his hotel in NYC. It was in the high 20's that night. Every red traffic light in NYC ,I had to keep my foot on the gas so it wouldn't die out. The engine from the factory had 2 different intake manifold gaskets. The one on the driver side was blocked off- no hole for exhaust crossover passage on the intake. This was the steel shim factory gasket. The passenger side had just a small hole -just enough for the heat riser tube to fit though the gasket .Obviously the factory wanted the choke to get heat- but no where near as much as in a non supercharged engine.I'm figuring that with the supercharger compressing and heating the air, the factory wanted as little heat as possible getting to the carb, just enough to heat the choke tube to open the choke plate and nothing more. I'm guessing my carb is just on the verge of vapor lock. I'm going to put the exhaust crossover back to the factory configuration and see what happens. I'll bet my hot idle problem disappears. I changed my ignition switch yesterday, the car would sometimes crank and not start. It would kick back on the starter as you would release the key. It seems OK now. I also made a longer shaft for the clutch release . I had installed a Center Force diaphragm type clutch. I couldn't get enough throw in the lingage to get a good clean release, especially when engaging reverse. The car is getting better. I want to drive it to Hemmings Musclepalooza on Memorial day weekend.It is a car show and a drag meet. I want to run it. I also have some wheel hop issues to sort out.

Reply to
jflan63

Tim,

I realized that my statement could be interpreted two ways. What I meant to say was use a modern air filter base plate and your nice R1 Chrome top (G). If I had an R1 I wouldn't even mess with switching the carb tops. Keep it Edelbrock all the way and just adapt the air cleaner. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Reply to
Ernie Rizzolo

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.