Absolutely.
As I stated, use of sugarcane for ethanol would be a fraction of the cost of using corn. Consequently there is no big money to be made by big oil that controls the outlets.
I believe that most of France's nuclear plants were built during more conservative administrations. BTW, it looks like the conservatives may be the big winners in the election on Sunday.
JT
Thank you for the 5 degree point of view...
JT
Un, Hello! I haven't seen anyone here complain about the workers at the refineries. Yes your job is tough but what the hell does that have to do with the price of gas. Your job has always been tough even when gas was not a rip-off.
A gallon or litre of oil NOT used leaves more for the future, and less exhaust in the air, and more for my cars.
I installed a Solar Max (solar air) heater
Gas for the Wagonaire is $111.9 litre, for the Pug diesel is $108.9, heating oil about $0.74 litre
Jim Bartley on PEI-it was 36 degrees this AM
$2.829 for 87 octane here in De Queen, AR
other little towns between here and Texarkana friday were as high as $2.899
Crap... I looked out at my garage parking area and concluded that my carbon footprint is about the size of a block of coal the size of a house and will probably land on me and crush me to death. Worrying about it is just biting the hook that's being dangled at you from the politicians, the media, and those that stand to profit from the panic you all react to. F' 'em and don't play their game. Enjoy the short time you have left on this infested planet. Get a grip and toughen up and act like the owner of the top of the food chain. I guarantee that gallon of fuel you save will be sucked up by someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about your conservation efforts. And he lives a couple doors down from you, not in some third world country. Jeff (heading out to burn carbon on the way to a frivolous car show...and feeling good about it all..) Rice
"George" wrote...
And once again, the "ethanol" solution was debunked on ABC last night. It's only a money machine for the big agriculture companies like Archer Daniels and of course big oil which is the only means of delivery for the product.
JT
(Who likes that Stoessel guy's muckraking)
Alex Magdaleno wrote:
I predict that there will huge amounts of fuel "left for the future" because surely we will wake up and taste the coffee some day. I see no choice but a change in tactic regarding energy production and the solutions are available now.
Nothing would please me more to see Exxon/Mobil etc. to suffer the same fate as Studebaker. Toss in ArcherDaniels into that mix too.
BUT, I question you choice of a tiny 1,200 sq. ft. house. No grand foyer, great room, sun room etc.??? Ya mite be in fer a ruff time thar' podner. (Based on a friend's recent experience with his "management."
JT
George wrote:
Gonna be quite a feat for Santa to put that lump of coal in your stockin'...
JT
Jeff Rice wrote:
The ethanol deal is one of the biggest frauds on the public in recent years. It'll drive the price of corn through the roof, taxpayers will subsidize the crap and it's a net energy loser with present technology. I'm ashamed of both parties for pandering to the grain belt voters at our expense. The sad thing is that any politician that would dare tell the truth would be unelectable.
Grumpy AuC> And once again, the "ethanol" solution was debunked on ABC last night.
People don't realize how many products have corn in them in one form or another. Watch the price go sky high on your favorite tortilla chips, soft drinks (w/high fructose corn syrup), margarine, ice cream, cereal, and on and on. The price of corn is already hurting people in low income areas such as Mexico- has made their tortillas unaffordable. Corn has been a feed grain for cattle and hogs. Now it is more profitable to divert corn to ethanol. Alternate feed grains? I can't think of any that really replace corn. Look at the price of meats go up too. Paul Johnson
There is such an abundance of corn it isn't even funny. There is a cement plant here in town that burns dicarded corn by the semiloads. A company called Green Products hauls in at least 10 to 20 truckloads of both bulk and bagged discard corn so it can be burned as fuel in the kilns. This daily. There is so much that the cement company has rented several warehouses in town to store it...Most of it I was told came from places where it had sat outside in piles for months and started to rot. Farmers not only got subsidized for growing it..but also for their loss...Just keeps the prices up. BTW they also burn several rail carloads of coal that comes up from the south. and don't even get me stated on ethanal plants. We have two. Most of the workers are TexMexs making $24 to 35 an hour..
Dave ( from the farm belt)B
--Sad but true, right on, and couldn't have said it more offensively myself!
This reminds me of guys from high school I'd bump into in the early 70's who'd say, "Hey maaann...I just got back from California, and while I was out there my hair was longer than yours. Just got it cut." Any good scout, or old-fashioned protestant, or hard-scrabble skinflint (on a good day, I'll answer to all three) was RAISED to do all this eco stuff, as a way of being a citizen, a good steward, or not wasting the family capital. Comes now these coke-heads who were wastrels and gluttons until two weeks ago, and, like the newly-converted everywhere, they NEED to tell YOU how wrong your life has been all these years. Yes, Goreistas, I'm making fun of YOU. When we built on in 1962, we changed from oil forced-air heat to gas hot-water and cut our energy use by two-thirds. I de-lamped, dimmed and fluoro'd in the 70's, re-windowed and super-insulated in the early 80's (over 40% additional cut), passive-solar'ed in the mid-80's. I got no tax credits, no letter of appreciation from the Sierra Club. When the cool kids drove muscle cars, I got by on econo-boxes, and then a hi-rev sport sedan that got 30 on the road. I do not owe these snot-noses shit. They owe ME 40-some years of carbon credits for doing the right thing while they f***ed off.
I have a 20-year hardon for progressive magazines that show "concepts" of how to save energy, Hollywood prototypes presented as something you need to install tomorrow to avoid the war-crimes trial. Add up the labor and energy wasted on "solutions" that aren't ready for the real world, and you get about ten years into each fad before it breaks even. That'd cover windmills, geothermal, solar-cell roofs, recycled rubber shingles, floor heat tubes, two or three alternate lighting systems, tankless water heaters, hybrid cars (and our 1953 motor-mounts, FWIW).
We're now supposed to adopt a prison-camp lifestyle enthusiastically because
2/3 of the rest of the world recently decided they wanted to live like Americans? I wonder: when future cartoonists draw a picture of somebody having an idea, will the balloon over the head show a fluorescent tube? And will it flicker?Found on the net:
Why is demand for ethanol a boon to Midwest corn growers, but a worry for local farmers?
The drive toward ethanol may be a boon for struggling farm towns and large-scale corn growers in the Midwest, but their gain from grain may mean pain for local farmers and consumers.
The price paid for a bushel of corn has risen meteorically, from $2.50 over the summer to $4.00 now. That's a boon for farmers who grow corn to sell, as in the Midwest.
On a national scale, the ethanol boom is pumping millions of dollars into local farm economies.
But he says the reality is ethanol is enriching many farmers and the agricultural economy nationwide. Ethanol, he says, "is proof in the pudding if you want to save farmland and income for farmers."
mcavanti wrote:
I'm sure that's a much more satisfying way to look at it as opposed to welcoming the 'wastrels' to your way of thinking. How dare they change their ways and become 'good stewards'! Just who do they think they are?
I also take comfort in knowing I need not conserve energy or contribute to fouling our communal nest because someone else, somewhere else, isn't doing their part.
Think I'll go turn all the lights in the house on.
snipped-for-privacy@bex.net wrote:
Basic grocery prices (to me) have risen well over 10% during the past year and most of it is directly energy related. Diversion of corn production to ethanol is part of the equation.
Just be sure that your ArcherDaniels portfolio is brimmin' to the brim!
JT
John Poulos wrote:
It's already happening. One way or the other, they have us hawg tied over the fire ants mound spread eagled and ripe for the pickin'...
It just amazes me how gullible the public has become. "Follow the kawwat, follow the kawwat..."
JT
Heh... Sounds like an "inside" job. Well, actually it has to be with the guv'ment as the main conspirator.
JT
Well, Jeff, I agree--have fun. I'm not a mindless Greenie--just looking at the balance sheet. I'm not trying to save the planet, just my wallet. If they coincide, great.
I am thinking this way. The Solar Max $2,841, the insulated window curtains from Sears $800, the ReTherm $600, the compact fluorescent bulbs $50, less than $5 grand all told will save me more than the carbon footprint...it will save me MONEY. Money that I can use instead to go to car shows, driving my
20 mpg 63 Wagonaire, the 21 mpg 88 Wagoneer, the 23 mpg 86 Comanche, the 22 mpg 49 Kaiser, or buying parts from SASCO, SI, and the like.- we have one of the highest regular costs for electricity going, in Canada outside of remote places like the high North
- we have one of the highest fuel costs - gas, diesel, heating oil-- ditto and it ain't going anywhere but up faster than my paycheque--or worse--my pension.
If I can heat my house for the cost of a small lightbulb in electricity, then maybe I'll spend the $2,500-$3,000 I spend on oil for heating/hot water year round elsewhere. And the lightbulbs have already saved me $$$ on my electricity bill and paid for themselves several times over.
Jim Bartley on PEI-with 5 cars and 2 trucks, the Greens aren't making me poster boy.
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