01 outback valve cover gasket failure :-\

For what it's worth, it was P0302 Cylinder 2 misfire detected (which corresopnded to the cylinder that had a plug boot dripping with oil)

So, here's where we've been since:

Diagnostic on catalytic converter showed excessive heating/blockage, (so perhaps the cat check engine light code wasn't completely worthless).

Dye test on head gasket showed a small internal breach. Shocking. Head gasket problems on a 2001 2.5L?

So we rebuild the heads both sides, replace the cat to the tune of $1800--New head gasket (aftermarket--wee!), new valve cover gaskets, seals etc, defect out the plug wires and plugs and all that jazz. Life should be swell right? Nahhhhhh.

Friggin stumbling/surge at 4000rpm persisted, but it was intermittent and generally only detectable after about 20min or so on the highway. Along with it, a mild bucking at 1250rpm on decel/coasting also became noticeable. So we limp around with that issue for a couple weeks since we want to give the rebuilt heads some breakin time and not rush to judgement. About 900 miles later, same crap is still happening and we finally get enough misfires to trigger another CEL code. This time: P0341 Camshaft position sensor circuit range/performance problem

So what the heck, we replace the cam sensor. $150 job. I get teh car back -- and no fix. Rough running in similar rpm ranges intermittently, and eventually the car did throw a check engine light (CEL). After sitting overnight in the garage though, before I coudl take it in, the CEL code cleared. Furthermore, when my mech went to read it, there was no code stored in memory this time.

At this point my mechanic and I are both frustrated with this headache PITA intermittent problem, and a nicely timed vacation allowed me to leave it with him to drive for 2 weeks with the Dx computer connected.

With the computer, he was able to graph cam and crank position sensor readings, and showed anomalies with these readings being out of sync when the misfires were occurring, and sometimes getting crankshaft sensor codes. During diagnosis and work, it was also noted that moving the actual wiring harness seemed to trip a code on at least one occasion. Continuity checks fine on all conductors though, so we have something intermittent--which as anyone who's tried to repair christmas lights knows, can be quite a pain. So, the last piece in that circuit is a common wiring harness that is shared by the crank and cam sensors. That part is due in today and will get replaced today. Meanwhile the crank sensor was replaced to rule it out (not on my dime though) as it did have some indications of damage on it in addition to the crankshaft codes that were being thrown (but not always remembered or stored after powering off the vehicle).

During this time, my mechanic enlisted the help of another independent master mechanic shop owner on this and got frustrated enough to call a local subaru dealer to bring it in on his dime for them to take a wack at it. After a long talk on the phone with their lead tech, he confirmed that these problems are frustrating and that he was doing all the same things they'd be doing, right down to having the same model of diagnostic computer they were using.

This car hates all of us right now.

So, I've had the car for the past few days after the crank sensor was replaced. Our stumble/surge at 4000 rpm on accel and 1250 on decel still persist. After enough of those misfires, I get a CEL and the codes I'm getting now, before the harness replacement: P0301....Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected P0302....Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected P0303....Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected P0304....Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected P0341....Camshaft Position Sensor 'A' Circuit Range/Performance (Bank1 or Single Sensor)

Fun fun. I'll report back after the wiring harness is replaced. If that doesn't fix it...... not sure if the ECU is just going nuts (that not remembering codes thing has me concerned) or what the hell is going on.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.
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Aside from the CEL codes concerning cam shaft, what you describe it does during driving is the same thing mine went through (2001 Outback 76k w/possible head leak), mine turned out to be a bad O2 sensor.

I guess what happened was it lost or threw bad data, and sent all sorts of stuff "downstream" out of whack including; misfires, hesitation while acceleration (almost like a tranny problem), raw gas dumped through cat, no accelleration when hot/moist/raining weather, and "surging" while coasting down hill (does it stop surging if you put it in neutral?).

It NEVER threw a code except after about six weeks of on and off problems. One day it would be fine, the next it would be terrible. I'd stop, and restart, and it would be fine, or not. Once the O2 sensor finally quit, then it coded bad O2.

A lot of the stuff you did probably needed to get done anyway due to the gaskets, but I am wondering if you should try a new O2 sensor before doing more complicated stuff.

Reply to
.._..

Thanks for your reply. I think I stumbled upon a very similar story to yours at the nasioc forum, and informed my mechanic (who is far from dedicated to Subes unfortunately) the "might try an O2 sensor if all else fails--seems it cleared up a really puzzling case with similar symptoms" and he acknowledged having seem a similar story somewhere.

In my case, there seems to be an ambient temperature dependency like yours (hotter=bad), but opposite your experience with moisture. For instance, recently, it rained and cooled things down to around 70F. While raining and cooler, the car ran with no problems. Hot and dry seems to be problematic.

But at any rate, if this wiring harness replacement doesn't fix it, swapping 02 sensors sounds like the next cartridge to put in the ole shotgun. I agree that the rebuilding of the heads and getting an aftermarket head gasket done was a "sooner or later" proposition as I try to pull some feel-good math of this little journey. *sigh*

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

Hi

I just went through the same kind of problems

Hesitations on accelleration and decelleration, almost stalling on stops and red lights, lack of power. Problem worse went hot.

The mecanics changed the cam position sensor, o2 sensor, spark plugs and wires and the problem was still there.

They finally took the engine out to check something and found out that the timing belt was off by 4%, I think it had 2 teeth broken or something. I will get the complete explanation monday.

I have driven it for 1 day and it seems to have solved the problem.

Keep us informed

Fo

Reply to
google

VERY interesting, and something I'll be passing onto my mechanic as this driveability issue started after he did a timing belt on it. It drove perfectly before I did that $2k worth of preventive maintenance.

Thanks for your post. I'll let you know what happens.

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

Oh, if you could also find out what codes if any you were getting from your check engine light. I'm seeing misfires in cylinders 1-4 and camshaft position range/performance codes when/if my issues get bad enough.

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

I had

misfire on cylinder 1-2-3-4 (right after changing the spark plugs and cables) air/fuel ratio sensor (changed) camshaft position sensor (changed twice) and catalytic sensor (not changed)

If you say it started soon after changing the belt then it may very well be the same problem.

Keep us informed

Fo

Reply to
google

Have had these on and off most recently.

I haven't had this 02 sensor code.

I've had this one and had the senosr changed to no improvement.

Had this earlier and it accompanied a catalytic converter that failed a heat test and apparently was partialy blocked. Cat changed, haven't seen code since. One poster suggested (and it made sense) that enough misfires throwing gas into the cat will kill it.

Eerie. I'll keep ya posted.

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

You are a godsend.

I finally was able to get the vehicle back into the mechanic, mentioning this experience of yours, and reminding him that all the driveability issues happened when we changed the timing belt. He'd even seen the TSB on the issue and was very careful to rotate the engine 3x as the procedure states, etc. However, he did indicate that it's certainly possible for the belt to skip after that point and we'd never be able to really see it.

So upon inspection today, he found a tooth on the belt that was not gone--it was just folding over and not holding. Doh.

So he's replacing the belt tomorrow when the belt comes in. We'll see if that finally gets it. He plans to turn the engine manually as many times as it takes until he sees the tensioner pumping all the way out.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

As reported previously, turns out I had the very same problem. The timing belt skipped a tooth when it was replaced. The root cause was a defective new Subaru OEM tensioner. This was fingered conclusively when my tech went to replace the belt again and couldn't get the tensioner to pump up and lock out even after 10 turns of the engine (only 3 are called for in the TSB on this issue apparently).

Aftermarket tensioner with a spring backup to the hydraulic action is now on my car and the problem is solved. It's like driving a different car now as I'd gotten so used to how lousy the power was during those months we were chasing our tail playing the ODB-II code of the day game.

I'm not declaring total victory yet though. The car's running great but there is a new CEL since the new rear cat was defected out due to a loose internal part. It's now showing a pending:

P0031 HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low (Bank 1 Sensor 1)

My guess is that with the exhaust work they nicked a friggin o2 sensor heater supply wire. Grrr.

But the car is running well!!! Wee!

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

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