2001 Legacy clutch questions

Hi all,

I got a used 2001 Subaru Legacy last summer in July. It's a 5-speed manual, the first manual I've ever owned. It's in great shape body wise, and has the original undercoat still on it, which is a big deal for here in Maine, where cars rot out and die prematurely quite often. (Road salt and sand.)

The clutch it had in it seemed to work and grab okay when we bought the car, and I'm sure my early abuse of the clutch put some wear on it as I learned how to drive. Finally, though, I had it down to the point after a few months where I could drive smoothly, not slip the clutch, take off without burning it, etc etc. I think, and have been told by other people with a lot of experience driving manuals who watch me that I do okay now. I also do not by any means 'ride the clutch' - up or down, as quickly as possible.

When we bought the car, and right up until the point the clutch went out, it grabbed near the mid/top of the pedal's travel.

About a month and a half ago my clutch let go, which we pretty much expected since we had no idea how old the one in it was. We had it replaced at a local shop, and the mechanic told us the clutch disc itself actually had plenty of meat left on it, but the problem was the pressure plate didn't have enough spring to 'grab' anymore. Apparently, some fool had tried to replace only the clutch disc and leave the pressure plate and other parts behind. It was replaced with a full clutch kit, and away we went.

The new clutch grabbed very near the floor for the first week or so, but as it wore in, the engagement point gradually crept back up to it's original place near the mid/top of the pedal's travel. It seems fine this way, grabs tighter than the old clutch did and doesn't have any problems with disengaging. I can sit with the clutch all the way in and go straight from reverse to first and back as many times as you like.

I guess my question is, is it normal for the pedal to be grabbing near the middle/top again like that? I've heard that means a clutch is near death, but it was that way for six months before the pressure plate let go last time. I just don't want to end up putting another clutch in this car in six months. Thoughts?

Reply to
Wells Morong
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You're right in thinking that's not quite right, with everything new and in good shape the engagement point should be more towards the middle of pedal travel. On the hydraulic clutches there is an adjustment for the master cylinder pushrod above the pedals, you may need to adjust that to get the correct pedal travel, engagement and free play. When it's adjusted properly there should be a small amount of free play at the top of the pedal travel (about 1/2-1" or so). Too little free play can result in slippage, too much can cause incomplete clutch release.

Reply to
mulder

I have a 2000 OBW 5MT myself, and I had the clutch replaced about 2-3 years ago. The clutches on Subarus seem to be a source of mystery for most drivers, they are much harder to push in, and they seem to grab suddenly. I've driven plenty of other manual transmission cars before, and all of their clutches react slightly differently from each other, but the Subaru is the only one after all of these years that I cannot get a consistently smooth shift in. Every other car you basically just have to get used to the grab point and the pressure and you'll be smooth in no time, but not the Subie.

However, in a snowy environment like Maine, you are better off with the manual transmission than the auto transmission Legacy. They use totally different AWD systems between them, and as far as I'm concerned the MT AWD is the mechanically superior system.

Yousuf Khan

Reply to
Yousuf Khan

It's unusual for a clutch to have a big change in the engagement point in a short period of time. I have no idea what would cause that. Since you just changed the clutch disk, the pedal positions are probably normal. The change in engagement point however, is troubling to me.

On my VWs I had the clutch adjusted with the engagement point on the high side cause that's the way I liked it. Setting up a clutch this way at the factory or repair shop is not practical because it means more care must be taken to make sure a minimal clearance is present. By setting the clearance to release more towards the middle or towards the bottom, you can get more time between when you have to make adjustments.

OTOH, your car has a hydraulic clutch which is self-adjusting. You won't have to ever worry about it during it's expected lifetime. My recommendation is that you check your fluid level for a few weeks to make sure there's no leaks. This is always a good idea after messing with the hydraulic system. Your pedal engagement should not change during it's expected lifetime.

Reply to
dsi1

It is a common occurrence that if the hydraulic circuit in the clutch system is not bled properly, the engagement point will be pretty low, meaning it is barely disengaging the clutch. After some use, some systems will improve and you will notice a change just like the one you describe.

If you think it is working normally now, just enjoy it.

Good luck,

AS

Wells Mor> Hi all,

Reply to
AS

Self-bleeding hydraulic systems sound great but I've never heard of this being on Subarus. What's the story on this?

Reply to
dsi1

I had wondered, because it took a long while until I got a feel for this car, and I still after six months stall it occasionally and make rough shifts. I figured maybe I just sucked with this whole clutch thing, so it's comforting to know Subaru's clutches are just a bit odd. And yes, I had a 96 Legacy Wagon in this same environment years ago. Loved it to death, but it didn't have the power this one does. This one has had the engine changed and the new one is much newer than the car is, it's a 2.5 non-turbo. 175HP I believe. Whatever it is, it's got some serious balls in the snow, because I can back out of my driveway in reverse through a bank of snow from the plow truck about

14" high. It just chews right through it, making that deep, bad-ass growl it makes in reverse all the while. Car love is a wonderful thing. ;)
Reply to
Wells Morong

It is not a self bleeding system.

In my Nissan Maxima, after having bled the system a few times after a master cylinder repair, the engagement point was still too low.

Having no other option I left the system as it was, and began using the car. After a couple of short trips, the clutch, by itself, came back to as new engaging.

In bleeding brakes or clutch systems, always be SUPER CLEAN. Paper towels leave lint that will shorten the system life, if not impede proper function. I always keep Lint free rags for this operations.

Some cars, as Isuzu Rodeos and some Ford Explorers, are very, and I mean, very difficult to bleed.

For those difficult cases, the best system I have found is to reverse bleed. Using a few feet of PVC hose and a high pressure oiler, such as

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, full with clean brake fluid, with an empty master cylinder and a released clutch pedal, loosen the bleeder and pump the brake fluid in the bleeder. The master cylinder tank will fill eventually and may need to be emptied for further bleeding. This reverse bleed has an unintended advantage... it helps clean the master cylinder. In a friends Explorer, he had refilled the clutch master cylinder and had loaded it with dirt. Reverse bleeding brought lots of dirt back into the master cylinder reservoir. After removing all the dirt, and filling with new fluid, the clutch came back to life.

Did I mention, be VERY VERY CLEAN when working on this systems?

I hope this info helps.

Good luck,

AS

dsi1 wrote:

Reply to
AS

Not the answer you are looking for, maybe, but I had a similar experience after putting in a new disc and flywheel. In the begining, it was a kind of hair trigger that caught at the very top. This was okay on the way in, but everytime I had to get the car moving again and let in the clutch, it would jerk the car. But, after a few weeks, I got it to where I like -- roughly half way. The job was done at a dealer and the replacement was at ~ 77,000 miles, when the car was about 8 years old.

Perhaps yours would fix itself. When I asked my dealer (the car died out of town and the work was done at a dealer there) about it just after I retrieved the car, he said that there was not much to 'adjust' in so far as the catch point.

mt

Reply to
Mike Trainor

That's interesting, I have never seen that happen nor would I have an explanation of how something like that would happen.

Reply to
dsi1

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