a few more timing belt tips

I posted some tips on timing belt replacement about a year ago when I did one on my 2.2 liter 98 legacy. There were a few responses to that with additional advice, and I think it is a good thread. This past weekend I did my 2.5 liter SOHC 2004 outback. Here are a few things I learned:

The crank pulley has a hash mark on the BACK of the pulley. Any marks on the front are meaningless and will only lead you astray. I initally set up my belt's marks with the two hash marks on the front of the cam pulleys and the dot on the front of the crank pulley. This was 90=B0 away from the hash mark. If I had started the engine like this it would have been certain disaster. Fortunately I did an idiot check and tried to turn it over by hand first. When I felt resistance I knew something was wrong and looked at a youtube video concerning a 2001 forester TB replacement.

Turning the engine over by hand using the camshaft bolts doesn't work. I did this and wound up having the belt skip two teeth on the crank shaft. I thought I had a defective new tensioner and started cursing since it was Sunday afternoon and no Subaru parts places were open. I put the old tensioner back on and tried turning the engine over with the passenger side cam(which woudl be less likely to make it slip teeth since it puts more of the blet under tension) It slipped at the crank again. I had been using the cams since it takes more torque to turn them, so I figured I'd do les damage to valves if everything wasn't assembled properly. Afdter talking to a professional Audi/VW mechanic friend of mine, he confirmed that many engines will slip teeth if you use the cams to turn them, and that I should use the crank only. I reassembled it with the known good tensioner, cranked it with the crank, and it was golden. So then I took it apart for probably about the 15th time(seriously) and put on the new tensioner.

So what I learned in my 15 or so times of taking the belt off and putting it back on: The order that you take the tensioner and idler pulleys off is critical and makes all the difference!! I can't stress this enough. When taking it all apart, line up your marks to the block, then you can actually press down on the TB just to the right of the tensioner to make the tensioner wheel go up, thereby alligning the tensioner holes, then stick your allen wrench in there. Next you first take off the bottom left pulley. It is the bottom smooth pulley. Then take off the toothed one by the water pump. Now you can get the belt off.

When putting it back together, bolt the tensioner to the block, loop the belt through the crank pulley, tensioner, drivers side cam, water pump, and passenger side cam in that order. Push down on the bottom of the belt to keep tension on it so teeth don't slip anywhere. Then put a breaker bar on teh passenger sid ecam and nudge it a little CCW to put more slack into the bottom of the belt. This will amke it much easier to put on the toothed idler pulley. You must put that one on first!!!. Once you get the toothed one on, then put on the smooth lower idler pulley. If you put the lower smooth one on first there will not be enough slack in teh belt to get the toothed one on unless you have superhuman strength and luck.

Also, I agree with Steve that you don't need to take out the radiator. You do need to take the fans out though.

I used the trick of putting a breaker bar on the crank bolt and tapping the starter, but instead of putting it on top of the frame rail by the battery, I put it 180 degrees from that so it hit the bottom of the frame rail on the passenger side of the car.There are no fragile AC lines or transmission fluid cooler lines or batteries there. Much safer.

Good luck

Reply to
weelliott
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good tips, you learn from your mistakes.

Putting all 3 marks in the "home position" is not top dead center, its the timing belt spot. Why? Valve clearance. in this position the pistons are 1/2 down the cylinders and the cams can be turned without risk of the valves hitting the piston. Whenever you need to roll a engine over, i leave the belt on and turn it by the crank- I do have a tool to grab the crankshaft, but some use the dampener pulley and socket. IF you need to roll the engine over and the belt is off, look at the crank mark and see if it is on or near it's spot; carefully correct it feeling for anything hitting the pistons. IF the cam pulleys are loose, then the valves are fully retracted anyway and you can safely move the crank. So what I will do, feel both cams, making sure there is no spring tension on them. the left side (facing the engine) will be near its home position the right will be way off. Turn the crank until its home, then balance the right cam in its home spot. Slip the belt on. Some don't remove the smooth belt pulley, it can be done by just removing the geared one.

The basic job pays a tech only 2.4 hours, so you have to beat that time to be profitable. I'd hate to tell you how quick you can get with air tools, a lift and a lot of practice.....

Reply to
StephenH

Yeah, the first time I did it I took about eight leisurely hours. I was probably working about 4 of that. The second time--this past one-- I was only two hours in when I tried to hand crank the engine and spent an eternity worrying about it and trying to figure out where to go from there. After disassembling and reassembling the tensioners so many times I could see easily getting it all done with air tools in an hour from popping the hood to starting to fill the antifreeze back up. With my hand tools I think I could beat two hours for that same duration.

During the more worrisome parts of the experience when I thought I had bent a valve and that was creating extra drag causing the belt to skip teeth, I was swearing never to do surgery on a car that had stakes this high. Now I look back at it and say, "Wow, that is an easy job once you REALLY know what you're doing. Maybe I should volunteer to do my neighbor's when he needs his done."

Reply to
weelliott

i would volunteer if I were you. Only look at the heads and make sure they are not leaking prior. not fair to do all the work then take it all apart again.

If a subie were to break a timing belt, the chances of the pistons hitting the valves are low.

Did a 4 cam timing belt and seals today. 4 hours but it was rusty and dirty; had some issued. Balancer stuck on. broken covers, Thank God I had a few used parts to help them out with.

Also, I can't stress how rarely we change water-pumps. we never seem to need to do them with the belts. only seen 2? failed in 4 years at this shop.

Reply to
StephenH

Concerning the water pumps: Are you saying that you don't change them with the belts and have only seen two fail at all, or are you saying that you don't change them at the same time as the belt unless they look like they' are failing, and that has only been twice?

I guess what I am really asking is how many miles do you think they last? 120k? 200k? forever?

I had 138k on that engine when I changed the belt. I just bought the car in February with knowledge of timing belt or water pump replacement history. I figure that I'll wait about 100k miles to change it and am not confident that the water pump will last 240k miles. Are you saying that they typically do?

Reply to
weelliott

If I had to choose a fail item, it would be the idler pulleys, by far. Can't tell you how long anything will last, but unless the customer requests it, Ill feel the bearing and look for a leak. I've only done

2 and I think they were customer rec's. The 4 cam the other day we put a new geared idler in it, and you can see where the idler had failed prior. today a older 2.2 had a broken bolt for the tensioner pulley
Reply to
StephenH

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