I was reading that the AWD works better to maintain traction when the wheels have more power going to them, but in ice and snow people often recommend that you use a higher gear. Is there any contradiction here?
-- Mark
Having driven AWD in ice and snow, I would not recommend a higher gear, instead, gearing down to slow the car for more stable handling under slick conditions. Seems easier to break traction in high gear when you have little to begin with, but maybe the other forum posters will have more insight.
Just my two cents,
~Brian
Whatever works: works. Your post scares me. Are we on the same roads? I just got runoff recently by an 80's camaro. I bet he would have asked something like this... Easy steps to follow:
Holy cow. I am gong to hide in inclement weather. Not because of the weather...
From the previous posts, I gather that the first two posters have never done 1, 2, or 3.
I've found that a higher gear (second with A/T, second or third with M/T) always works better except for two cases.
1) Going up a steep uphill that's been heavily sanded. Light foot though! Try the higher gear first! 2) Slow creep in traffic, but even then try the higher gear first.I've lost count over the years of the "low gear/punch it" school of thought folks that are on the side of the road, off in the ditch, or (worse yet) totally stalled in what was a moving stream of traffic.
Then there's the "totally slow is best" that poop out at the first small rise and stop everyone else.
Stop reading trash.
No. As the road gets slicker you have to be smoother with the throttle brakes and the steering wheel. Higher gear probably helps a lot of people to be smoother since the already lackluster subaru throttle response gets even worse and you can't really have any jerkiness while accelerating and lugging the engine at the same time. I floor my OBS on snow with all season tires (the dreaded RE92s) and it starts going with little to no wheelspin, but would not dare such a feat on slick ice. It's all about learning of the limits of your tires on the surface at hand and the way the heft of the pigley that rides on them is handled by the problem between the steering wheel and the brakes.
For really moronic operators driving on slick surfaces for the first time I can complement the recommendation for using higher gear with a recommendation to use parking brakes for stopping :-D
Ah, then you need to read more carefully, because I didn't actually say anything about what I've tried. In practice, I have tried sliding around, etc., and I generally find that in the STi I do best in lower gears but being careful not change the wheel speed or change direction too fast (i.e. maintain reasonable rpms, but be gentle on the steering, brakes, and on throttle movement). The FWD approach of steering into skids seems to work well. Just because I read other people's advice and wonder how right they are doesn't mean that that's /all/ I do!
It's hard to compare with other cars I've slid around in, though: it's clearly better, but I've only had FWD, RWD or 4WD before: the Subaru AWD works very well, but it's weirdly /different/. One thing that I wished regular driving instruction covered, but that I had to learn afterwards, was how differently to drive such different systems in bad conditions.
-- Mark
Using a lower gear at a given speed will produce more torque to the drive wheels. That's why you downshift when climbing hills. High torque on slick surfaces can cause the wheels to break loose and loose traction.
Right. That is why you should let up on the throttle if you start to break loose and lose traction.
They ain't no bad conditions for a Subaru. They are bad conditions for one wheel drivers. They are fun conditions for a subaru.
My apologies for the miscommunication. When I said "gearing down to slow the car" I was talking about downshifting for the sake of engine breaking, not added torque.
~Brian
For the same speed, you will have lower RPM in a higher gear; which implies lower torque. I always go one gear higher than on dry roads and keep the RPM low. Itis easier to keep traction that way.
I don't get it. How's that lower torque helps to keep traction?
DK
Higher torque is far more likely to cause the tires to slip/spin because there's more power available to break the tenuous bond between the tire and the snow. A slipping/spinning tire has far less traction (and directional control) than one that's got less torque applied and isn't spinning.
So, just let up on the gas a bit...
That works, but it can also cause that break in traction going the other way (from engine braking).
The throttle vs traction pushmepullyou is far harder to deal with in a lower gear.
Why the big argument? Go out and try using both a lower and a higher gear on ice/snow/grease/whatever. If you feel you can control staying in that skinny window of traction in low gear, go ahead and do it. Just don't block my way or hit me when you find that a throttle-foot twitch cause you to break traction.
Or pull up your parking brake 4 or 5 clicks.
Higher torque makes it easier to break loose on ice.
You can only do that to a point. Also, it is much harder to properly modulate the throttle on ice if the revs are high; particulary on a turbocharged car. It is easier to just shift to one gear higher and keep the revs low.
I drive on ice several months of the year. Low revs and a higher gear are much more forgiving on slippery surfaces than trying to modulate the throttle at higher revs.
Great way to face traffic
I wish FHI just shut off or lowered the boost in the "intelligent" mode of si-drive and put a note in the manual to use that on ice. This way people with cars with turbo in sport and sport sharp modes would not have to suffer the turbo lag. Is that doable? I think so. What I have little explanation for is why there is such a sloooow throttle response on the 2.5 with no turbo, but it looks like someone in FHI marketing is keeping customers for idiots. And what's really discomforting is that they are not alone. Mazda just joined the ranks with the high gearing on Mazdaspeed 3. I guess it's the corrupting influence of the big three from Detrua. Those have robbed their customers of power thru the losses in transmissions for decades. This way they look good on the spec sheet with high hp/torque and still make friends with EPA. Very clever.
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