chains for Forester

Never needed chains up here in Anchorage. I've just stuck with the origional factory tires. Get far better traction then in my 89 Bronco 4X4 with studded tires

Can't imagine why not; plenty of clearance in the wheel wells. We carry 2 sets of cable chains in the back of m'ladys '02 Forester, but have never needed them.

Now that's decidedly odd. Conventional wisdom suggests that if you must chain up, you do both axles, or only the rears. Way too much danger of "pin-wheel" action otherwise. Of course at I've heard that Subaru's really don't need chains except possibly in

Who can say. I _can_ tell you that if you put a set of Michelin Arctic Alpins on for winter driving, it is unlikely that you will ever _need_ the chains, whether required by the state or not.

As mentioned, use a dedicated winter tire. The all seasons supplied on our '02 were less than confidence inspiring on slick roads. Also, on the '02, the ABS system sucks on very low traction surfaces (very hard packed snow to black ice), and we have found it beneficial to disable the ABS in these situations. Either pull the fuse, or install a switch. Maybe the ABS is better in the newer models . . . Whatever you do, consider that a practiced driver on bald tires is probably safer than an unskilled driver on fresh studs. (Chains do even the field a bit, but are very tiring, both to install and remove, and to drive on for any distance.) Find a big snow covered parking lot, and have her practice sliding around until the ol' countersteer becomes second nature; if her first experience in slip-slidin' is on a snowy mountain highway, it's _way_ too late . . . Or better yet, find a club sponsoring an ice rally-cross event, and spend a Sunday dodging cones. (This is how I've trained my teenaged drivers, and it's huge fun, too :-)

Hope this is helpful.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB Laboratory Manager Microelectronics Research University of Colorado (719) 262-3101

.......and some more good content but it takes up too much space.......

Solution: use dedicated snow tires and steel rims in the winter. In Canada Motomaster Icetracs will do the trick from a price/performance standpoint.

Ron

We just traded our 1998 Forester S (120K miles NH driving) for a 2004 Forester XS ($550 under invoice plus $1000 cash rebate, good deal).

I also noticed that the 2004 manual says to put chains only on the front wheels, contrary to my instincts as S has already noted. When I put chains on my 4X4 truck to plow, I either put them on just the rear or on all 4 wheels. I suppose that Subaru has some good reason for the advice.

Our '98 did real well on the roads in the snow without ever using chains once we replaced the original Croak-ohama tires. The tires on the '04 are also Croak-ohama's but a new model. Remains to be seen how they do in the snow. Our 12 % slope long driveway is another matter. If more than about 4 inches of snow, the '98 Forrester had a hard time getting up the grade while my 4X4 Ram truck with BFG All Terrain A/T tires had no problem. (Too bad that BFG does not make those tires for the Forrester). The '04 Forrester has limited slip rear differential and hopefully that will help up the driveway.

Ski trips on roads that get plowed periodically during a storm should be no problem for the Forrester itself. The remaining parameter will be driver skill, experience and judgment. Driving in the snow will be a problem for an inexperienced driver no matter what the vehicle. If no experience at all, expect to end up in the ditch if driving during moderate to heavy snowfall with a few inches snow on the road on winding hilly roads. Every year the first snowfall here results in a fresh batch of vehicles in the ditch, many of them big SUV's.

The only real downside of the Forrester in winter is the ABS breaks. They will reduce control and increase stopping distance on snow/ice as compared to non ABS with an experienced driver. Of course, you should not go fast in the snow anyway. Most drivers of 4WD vehicles drive too fast in snow not really getting the fact that the vehicle will take just as long to stop as a 2WD.

Woody

Thanks for all the comments. Snow tires seem like overkill (I'm in sunny Southern California). I remember a couple of winters long ago near Erie, Pennsylvania. We bought two extra rims and put studded snow tires on them and changed off the tires every autumn -- yes, snow would arrive by Halloween. I remember taking a trip to Florida one Christmas. I took off the snow tires and put on the regular tires with chains just to get out of town. Removed them after 25 miles and continued the trip. Studded tires weren't allowed in Georgia.

Bill

equipped,

Can't imagine why not; plenty of clearance in the wheel wells. We carry 2 sets of cable chains in the back of m'ladys '02 Forester, but have never needed them.

Now that's decidedly odd. Conventional wisdom suggests that if you must chain up, you do both axles, or only the rears. Way too much danger of "pin-wheel" action otherwise. Of course at I've heard that Subaru's really don't need chains except possibly in

Who can say. I _can_ tell you that if you put a set of Michelin Arctic Alpins on for winter driving, it is unlikely that you will ever _need_ the chains, whether required by the state or not.

As mentioned, use a dedicated winter tire. The all seasons supplied on our '02 were less than confidence inspiring on slick roads. Also, on the '02, the ABS system sucks on very low traction surfaces (very hard packed snow to black ice), and we have found it beneficial to disable the ABS in these situations. Either pull the fuse, or install a switch. Maybe the ABS is better in the newer models . . . Whatever you do, consider that a practiced driver on bald tires is probably safer than an unskilled driver on fresh studs. (Chains do even the field a bit, but are very tiring, both to install and remove, and to drive on for any distance.) Find a big snow covered parking lot, and have her practice sliding around until the ol' countersteer becomes second nature; if her first experience in slip-slidin' is on a snowy mountain highway, it's _way_ too late . . . Or better yet, find a club sponsoring an ice rally-cross event, and spend a Sunday dodging cones. (This is how I've trained my teenaged drivers, and it's huge fun, too :-)

Hope this is helpful.

ByeBye! S.

Steve Jernigan KG0MB Laboratory Manager Microelectronics Research University of Colorado (719) 262-3101

For AWD, wouldn't you want the same tires all 'round? I've got a set of 4 studded tires on a 2nd set of rims here in St. John's, NF, Canada.

In northern Idaho or New Mexico I've never used chains! Used to commute from Santa Fe to Los Alamos (75 miles) for 12 years and never used studs or chains. And there's lots of of black ice and snow!!! That "never" applies to any car I've ever used, be it a Porsche, or front 2wd cars. I don't like the Sube, can't have near as much fun, it won't break loose except on black ice! Username munged by FixNews

It would still be nice to find out if anybody has experience with chains. When I lived in Washington state many years ago, the law required you to have them in your car when driving over the mountain passes in winter, and it had heavy penalties for those who got stuck there and didn't have chains.

D>

The word chains can be a misnomer. Probably why it's written that you should not use them, because it can be misconstrued to be link type chains.

You MUST use the "cable type" chains and ONLY in the front because of clearance issues on the inner wall of the rear tire to the strut spring bucket. Trying reaching in between there and you'll see that there's only about 1/2 inch clearance. There's more clearance in the front.

Even if you install the cable chains to the rear tightly, there's enough slop in the chain that you rear strut spring bucket will start to wear off. Maybe then you'll have enough clearance?

I live in Northern California and go to Tahoe on occasions. The checkpoints will know that you have an AWD or 4WD vehicle, check your tires, and sometimes even ask if you have 4WD engaged. They usually wave us by.

We were in Salt Lake City this past winter when they took a major snow dump. I would have to say that the Forester (X) performed flawlessly even with its stock Geolanders. The tires have a lot of siping so I'm satisfied with them as all seasons. Also we didn't drive excessively fast especially in these conditions. We never once had to use chains the entire trip in snow country.

Didn't I see that scene in a TV commercial? If not, it ought to be in one.

-John O

Have you considered cables? These are lighter and less destructive.

Wasn't there a commercial some years back that Subaru was the Official ski team vehicle? Now everyone is in love with Lance and bikes. :-] Username munged by FixNews