Chains required??

I have just bought a new Subaru OB 3.0. I notice in the owners manual I cannot use chains on the stock all weather tires due to clearance limitations.

Am I not required to have/use chains because of the AWD, or am I expected to have another set of tires/wheels with chains if I plan on being where chains are required?

Thanks,

Tim

Reply to
timscramstad
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It depends on your state laws...

In Oregon, chains mean 'traction devices'. That means chains on two wheel drive, on 4WD or AWD, then having having the proper tires is enough. All season doesn't qualify, I believe they have to be M+S rated.

Depending on your state, YMMV...

Jack

timscramstad wrote:

manual I

Reply to
jbaker

Good point! If you can't install chains on a vehicle due to it's design apparently there are just roads you can't drive on. I hope I never have to run into this situation. I do run M+S all season tires. The tire chains are a big No-No acording to the owners manual. In my situation, there is no way I would want a tire chain on my tires. There just isn't enough clearance. BlueSTi "Scary-Fast"

Reply to
BlueSTi

Thanks for the replies. In addition:

I talked with the service manager from my dealer in California, ( a skier.) He says the stock tires at least on the OB are designated M/S for mud and snow and the since it is all wheel drive, chains are not required in Ca. (Unfortunately, the CHP officer I talked to said they were required no matter the car.)

I did not realize this is state specific, so if we have any California skiers, whats your experience with chains and your Subaru.

thanks again,

Reply to
timscramstad

my 98 forester manual says chains on front tires only. havent experienced a situation where chains were required "no exceptions". that is not very common.

Reply to
frank

'05 Forester (USA) here, and the manual states front wheels only, and to use SAE Class "S" chains due to the clearances.

Security Chain Company, who manufactures traction devices, and runs the website:

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has lots of traction information, along with several types of cable and link chains that meet the SAE Type "S" requirements.

This website is from CALTRANS and designates the three types of chain controls that may be in effect. Note that in R2 areas, chains must be carried in 4WD vehicles, and in R3 areas, chains are required on all vehicles without exception.

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From the California Vehicle Code:

27459. No person shall operate any motor vehicle, trailer or semitrailer upon any portion of a highway without tire traction devices when that portion of the highway is signed for the requirement of tire traction devices. In any case where a passenger vehicle or motortruck having an unladen weight of 6,000 pounds or less may be required by the Department of Transportation or local authorities to be equipped with tire traction devices, the devices shall be placed on at least two drive wheels, or the department or local authorities may provide, in the alternative, that the vehicle may be equipped with snow-tread tires on at least two drive wheels when the weather and surface conditions at the time are such that the stopping, tractive, and cornering abilities of the snow-tread tires are adequate. The snow-tread tires shall be of a type and design manufactured for use on snow as a replacement for tire chains or tire traction devices, shall be in good condition, and shall bear the marking of M-S, M/S, or other marking indicating that the tire was manufactured for use on snow, or, in the case of tires purchased before January 1, 1987, shall either bear the markings or, in the opinion of the inspecting officer, comply with the tread pattern requirements of Section 558.

All in all, it looks like it depends on the highway, local jurisdiction, and the judgement of the CHP/LE officer.

Reply to
ZZ

Found this info at

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Guess that answers the question for my home state of California thanks all,

Tim

Types of Chain Controls During the winter months motorists may encounter traction device controls in the mountain areas of California. When chain controls are established signs along side the road will be opened indicating the type of requirement. There are three requirements in California.

Requirement One (R1): Chains are required, snow tires are allowed.

Requirement Two (R2): Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels. (NOTE: Four wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas)

Requirement Three (R3): Chains are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.

Reply to
timscramstad

All-season tires are M+S rated. If there is no M+S marking on the side, the tires are not all-season.

Reply to
David

Here is an exceprt from the NEVADA regulations:

Please note NRS 484.6432, sub para 2 which exempts 4WD vehicles from needing chains if snow tires are installed on all 4 wheels.

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NRS 484.643 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires: Use required where highway marked or posted.

  1. It is unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle, whether it is an emergency vehicle or otherwise, without traction devices, tire chains or snow tires upon any street or highway, under icy or snowy conditions, when the highway is marked or posted with signs for the requirement of traction devices, chains or snow tires.
  2. The Director shall adopt regulations defining ?traction device,? ?tire chain? and ?snow tire.? The Director shall consider regulations of the Federal Highway Administration and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and publications of the Rubber Manufacturers Association. The regulations must specify minimum standards for patterns of tread on snow tires which will provide adequate traction in mud and snow.
[1.6:166:1925; added 1955, 630]?(NRS A 1957, 336; 1981, 866; 1985, 643; 1987, 1344; 1989, 1051)

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NRS 484.6432 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires: Requirements under certain circumstances.

  1. If a highway in this state is marked or posted with signs requiring the use of traction devices, tire chains or snow tires, a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles must be equipped with:

(a) Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires if it has a gross weight or combined gross weight of 10,000 pounds or less.

(b) Tire chains if it has a gross weight or combined gross weight of more than 10,000 pounds.

  1. If a highway in this state is marked or posted with signs requiring the use of traction devices or tire chains on all motor vehicles except vehicles with 4-wheel drive and snow tires on all wheels, all such motor vehicles must be equipped with traction devices or tire chains.

(Added to NRS by 1987, 1342; A 1989, 1051)

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NRS 484.6434 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires: Installation and mounting. If a motor vehicle is required to be equipped with traction devices, tire chains or snow tires, the devices or chains must be installed or the tires must be mounted on at least two:

  1. Driving wheels of the motor vehicle; and
  2. Braking wheels of any trailing vehicle in a combination of vehicles if that trailing vehicle is equipped or required to be equipped with brakes.

(Added to NRS by 1987, 1343; A 1989, 1052)

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Reply to
ZZ

This has been discussed here about a year ago.

The consensus then appeared to be that if R1 or R2 is declared, AWD with M+S is "ok", and that CHP usually just close the road, rather then declare R3.

For example, current Truckee/Tahoe closures (lots of current snow):

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either complete closures, or (shouting theirs) CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS

Cheers,

Reply to
Paul Pluzhnikov

More likely than not. I do remember the term "All-Season" in common usage before the "M+S" (mud and snow) markings were used. Apparently the M+S standard was set by the Rubber Manufacturers of America.

That being said, I would think that the majority of M+S marked tires meet a minimum (but not necessarily ideal) standard for snow traction. If I were going to do a lot of driving in the snow, I would use purpose-built snow tires.

I found the following:

It defines "All-Season" as an M+S rated tire without the noise and rolling resistance of a traditional "deep-lug" winter tire. The RMA also has a newer "Severe Snow Conditions-Rated" designation, which supposedly carries a snowflake symbol on the sidewall. This is supposed to represent a tire with better snow traction than the basic M+S standard.

I looked up several of the Tire Rack's winter tire offerings in my car's stock size (205/55R16). These tires carry the "severe snow conditions" rating and "snowflake on a mountain" symbol:

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50 Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2 Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 Dunlop Graspic DS-2 Pirelli Winter 210 SnowSport Pirelli Winter Carving (who thinks up these names?)

I would think that the various winter driving regulations might be modified with this newer standard in place.

Reply to
y_p_w

Here is the Traction device page from the Nevada DOT

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Reply to
ZZ

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