Charge for running computer diagnostics

I recently had some trouble with my 2001 outback. The engine started shuddering badly and check-engine light started flashing. I had it towed to my repair shop (which is a new one for me - but was touted as wonderfully honest and good by my neighbor) and they fixed the problem, which turned out to be rotted ignition wires.

I thought that should be pretty simple, so I was surprised at the cost. Do these charges below sound legit? They charge $72/hr labor, so you can see that the first charge is for 1 hr. of labor

Labor: Remove & replace ignition wire set and test drive ($72) Computer test system, found bad ignition wires ($69.95)

Parts:

1 set of ignition wires ($87.69)

Total cost with tax: $248. Seemed crazy to me for replacing a few wires.

I was particularly surpirsed at the $69.95 fee for running the computer diagnostics. I can't imagine that would take very long. They said that was a flat fee that they charged any time they ran computer diagnostics. They also said that it included the time it took to determine the actual problem (rotted transmission wires in this case) based on the computer code (which was something like "multiple engine misfire") - but if it's a flat fee, why should that matter. Can't you just go to the local auto-parts store and run those computer diagnostics for free?

So, are these charges somewhat standard and/or legitimate or should I be looking for a new repair shop?

Thanks.

-JJ

Reply to
JJ
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You towed in your car and they fixed it for $248. In some places, a towed car is a license to gouge you for a lot more.

I think the price was fair and reasonable. They have to pay employees, rent, insurance and make a little profit. They won't be able to do that if they just charge you for the wire and $50.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

Seems a little puffy, but doesn't all that horrible. On one hand they need to recoup their computer investment, but on the other hand, the customer ends up feeling like they got charged twice for diagnosing the problem.

If I were feeling clever, I'd see if you had an idea of how miles the test drive was, and armed with that asking "Now I don't want to be a difficult customer, and I don't mind paying for good service, but can you help me to understand a full hour of biling for for driving X miles and pulling and replacing 4 plug wires? I don't begrudge the diagnosis fee for the computer time, and I appreciate you not bilking on parts upcharge [if that's true], but can you explain how you arrived at one hour labor time on the plug swap and test drive?

Ultimately, you're at their mercy if you bring the car back again, and if the guy's an ahole that has his trigger tripped on this, there's not much you can do, but on the other hand he fixed your car for under $250, which as things go isn't so awful. A virus infection on your computer will cost ya more than that.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

Thanks for the input. It sounds like it wasn't too bad.

If some place had decided to gouge me just because I had the car towed in, I definitely would never return. The tow was covered by my AAA membership by the way - or I might have just driven it. For no added cost, I figured better safe than sorry if it turned out to be a problem where driving the car a few miles would cause a much worse problem.

As it was though, since the care was already there, I also had them replace the front brake pads and rotors (which was needing to be done anyway), and I recently had work done to my exhaust system there, so it's not like they're not making any money off me. I'll probably return to have the clutch replaced sometime soon if it seems they're being honest and fair.

I mostly wanted to know if the 1 hr labor charge sounded reasonable, and if the flat-rate type of computer scan charge is common.

I don't have any quarrel about their advertised per-hour charge or parts mark-up - that's how they pay the bills and the rent and the salaries. And I have no problem being charged for an hour of labor for 47 minutes of work, but If they charged an hour of labor for a 20 minute job or an hour of labor for a 5 minute computer scan and 2 minute diagnosis, I would probably think about looking elsewhere. If it's a place that feels they have to charge at least $250 any time a car comes in, regardless of the problem, well, I don't think that's honest and fair.

So, is it standard practice to charge a flat rate for running the computer scan? If it is, I'd think that might be a fee that a repair shop might waive or at least reduce if you then went ahead and had a bunch of work done.

-JJ

Reply to
JJ

Some shops bill "book time" which takes the "this is how long this should take" number out of teh repair manuals/charts and pays no heed to how long it really takes. Sometimes the shop wins and the mechanic is fast, sometimes the job gets ugly after they've quoted a shop rate on labor, and they end up putting a lot more hours in it than that. How the individual dude works out these situations bears on whether you wanna deal with them or not.

It does seema bit odd to me. I've never seen such a fee on anything I've brought in, but if by that fee, it's just them plugging in an odb-ii scanner that autozone does for free, that seems a bit ridiculous.

If it's hooking up a performance computer and analyzing all sensor readings in real time, etc, then maybe.... but still, the computer would seem to me to be a tool whereby the dx what is wrong, and then you pay for them fixing it. I agree that it should be something they should discount off a bit if you give em a bunch of work.

-- Todd H.

2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Reply to
Todd H.

From my experience, shops around here charge a similar flat fee to download data. Typically they deduct this fee from the bill if you repair the vehicle there at that time.

It really just depends on how happy you are with the service. Maybe others will argue, but Subaru repairs are not cheap. Fortunately they need very little repair with normal use. If you felt cheated, then you need to go elsewhere.

Reply to
zero

Most shops do flat-rate a computer diagnosis. Here in Seattle that runs $50-85 but most are right around $65.

As far as "absorbing" part or all of the 'puter diags, you might find a select few who do, but you will probably find that the overall labor went up by an hour to cover it.

Reply to
nobody >

A little higher than my local car shop but about what the local dealer charges. A one-hour minimal charge is standard. Did you expect them to instantaneously do all the work on the ignition wire set? It takes time to pull the old wire set, pull the spark plugs to check their tips, reseat the spark plugs, grease the boots on the new wire set, check the wiring diagram to ensure proper order and install the new wire set, run a quick diagnostic again, and do their "test drive" (which I don't understand because I've never had the shop require they drive my car after replacing the ignition wires; they just do the diagnostic for an accurate guage of performance and don't bother guessing by driving the car around). If it takes less than an hour, they win and you lose. If it took more than an hour, like the new wire set was defective and they had to do it all over again, they lose and you win.

My local car shop charges $50-$60 depending on the car. Sometimes they run a coupon for $10-$15, or they'll lower the charge if I get work done as a result of a bad diagnosis (some places will negotiate). What, you expected them to magically know the problem without doing any analysis? You think their equipment is free? While it takes time to do the diagnostic, that $70 should be a flat fee since it should already include their labor time; i.e., anyone getting the same check would pay $70 and that's all (other than shop supplies and tax) because the labor charge is already built into that fee.

Have you priced out what a FULL ignition wire set costs? I've never had just one wire replaced. You replace them all as a set. You didn't mention if you had a 4- or 6-cylinder.

4-cylinder: $34 Bosch $54 NGK (OEM) $71 AC Delco 6-cylinder: $40-$50 standard $71 AC Delco

If it was a Subaru dealer, expect them to install only a Subaru-branded ignition wire set which means you pay a price premium for that name-brand item.

Many shops just go by their flat labor schedule for each service and don't account for overlapped time. The look it up in the book and add up the hours listed for each service. If it takes less time, they win. If longer, they lose. I really doubt you got charge a one-hour minimum labor charge all by itself. That one-hour labor was probably what the book said to replace the ignition wire set. How much they then decide per hour for their labor is dependent on the car shop you use. My dealer is more pricey for labor per hour than is the larger and speedy car shop that I often use whereas I found a closer and cheaper per-hour charging car shop but they are definitely slower.

If the speedy car shop can do the work then I use them. If they can't do the work then I go to the dealer (my shops will tell me when it is better to take my car to the dealer instead of them trying to do the work). If time is of no concern, like I can drop off the car in the morning or the night before and pick it up at the end of the day so they get to work on it anytime during the day, I'll use the cheaper but slower car shop that is closer to me. If possible, always start with small repairs to build your experience regarding their reliability and pricing.

Reply to
Vanguard

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