Crank Pulley Slipping? and why "Brake!" warning?

"counter-rotation" wrote: > Hi all, once again more quetions than answers. > > Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not > AWD) > 06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think > (I'm in > Australia). > > The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained > of > burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake > warning > lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were > in > good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to > repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the > crank > pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam > belt > cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most > drivebelt > rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c > is > turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive > belt. > The "top" of the pulley moves in and out. > So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this > possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal > rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has > anyone else > seen this? > Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the > symptoms > except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the > car > didn't stall that I'm aware of). > WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK > to fit > the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far > as I > can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect > it's > ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD. > Can > anyone reading this think of anything else which should be > checked? > (The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can > wait?) > > All advice greatly appreciated, as always. > Nathan, Australia.

havign the same problem. IN NZ,got the 2l twin cam. Did the timing belt etc 6months ago - looks like I may have not tightened the bolt on the main pully enough,unsure. Pully bolt is in and really difficult to turn, but teh front pully is loose. Same thing, slack steering and brake light - loose power steering and alternator belts. Cant remember, bolt undoes anticlockwise(if looking at engine) doesn?t it??

"counter-rotation" wrote: > Hi all, once again more quetions than answers. > > Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not > AWD) > 06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think > (I'm in > Australia). > > The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained > of > burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake > warning > lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were > in > good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to > repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the > crank > pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam > belt > cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most > drivebelt > rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c > is > turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive > belt. > The "top" of the pulley moves in and out. > So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this > possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal > rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has > anyone else > seen this? > Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the > symptoms > except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the > car > didn't stall that I'm aware of). > WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK > to fit > the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far > as I > can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect > it's > ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD. > Can > anyone reading this think of anything else which should be > checked? > (The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can > wait?) > > All advice greatly appreciated, as always. > Nathan, Australia.

Cheers.Will do.

In message - ewabom writes: :>

:>"counter-rotation" wrote: :> > Hi all, once again more quetions than answers. :> > :> > Vehicle in question is a 2.2l auto Liberty Series 1 (FWD not :> > AWD) :> > 06/1994 model... Called a Legacy in other countries I think :> > (I'm in :> > Australia). :> > :> > The owner/driver (she) called the pit-crew (me) and complained :> > of :> > burning rubber smell, heavy steering, and battery & brake :> > warning :> > lights. I went out, thinking "broken belt" but the belts were :> > in :> > good condition, tensioned right and I could not get the car to :> > repeat the fault. Head scratching ensued, and then I saw the :> > crank :> > pulley actually moving (bolt is tight), and a spot on the cam :> > belt :> > cover where it is actually melted, due to the rear-most :> > drivebelt :> > rubbing on the timing cover. This seems to happen as the a/c :> > is :> > turned on/off, ie tension coming on and off the a/c drive :> > belt. :> > The "top" of the pulley moves in and out. :> > So it seems that the pulley is slipping "on itself". Is this :> > possible - ie is it a two-piece pulley with an internal :> > rubber "dampener", that could let go and cause this? Has :> > anyone else :> > seen this? :> > Also, if I've diagnosed it correctly, this explains all the :> > symptoms :> > except one - why did the "BRAKE!" warning light come on (the :> > car :> > didn't stall that I'm aware of). :> > WRT repair... Obviously new pulley is needed. Would it be OK :> > to fit :> > the slightly damaged timing cover back on the vehicle? As far :> > as I :> > can see, the damage it has sustained will in no way affect :> > it's :> > ability to do what it does - protect the cam belt from FOD. :> > Can :> > anyone reading this think of anything else which should be :> > checked? :> > (The cam belt was changed about 50K (kms) ago - I think it can :> > wait?) :> > :> > All advice greatly appreciated, as always. :> > Nathan, Australia. :>

:>Cheers.Will do. :>

:>--

Hi

I had a similar problem with my 94 Legacy (2.2 FWD) last year at 170,000km.

The front oil seal started leaking, causing the bolt to loosen and allowed the pulley to work itself loose. I remember hearing a "clicking" type of sound at the time and thought it was just valve noise. There was so play in the pulley it chewed up the end of the crankshaft before the pulley broke. Very expensive repair. I found out later that the front oil seal is rated for 160,000km and is supposed to be replaced whenever the timing belt is changed.

Rob

Nathan This happens on many vehicles that use a 2 piece pulley, with rubber in between the 2 parts to take up vibrations. The brake light probably came on because the alt wasn't charging enough, the light for the alternator and brake are often combined, maybe to make it more visible when the alternator stops working or if the belt breaks. If there are no holes in the belt cover, you could re-use it, but holes will allow dirt to get in and cause problems. Make sure the new pulley is tightened to the right torque, I've seen 2 vehicles where the pulley nut loosened, probably by non-Subaru mechanics changing timing belts and not tightening the bolt to spec, and the crank end got chewed, causing a difficult repair (weld & grind, not actually changing the crank, which would be a very expensive repair since the caes have to be split to get the crank out, requiring the pistons to be removed first etc, etc.). Ed B

ewabom