Forester questions (hill climbing)

I know you aren't interested in the XT, but for the benefit of others reading this thread, I recently purchased an XT (automatic) and find it to be excellent climbing hills. I had no problems with downshifting on Mountain Pass between Las Vegas and Baker (I-15). I live in the Las Vegas metro area regularly drive it up into the local Spring Mountains for hiking trips. The Lee Canyon route was from 2500' to 7800' carrying 4 adults with hiking gear. No problems at all. In the Lake Tahoe area it cruised up US-50 climbing up to the Tahoe basin from both the Placerville and the Carson City sides. On one side trip we drove up from Gardnerville into Stateline via the Kingsbury Grade and had fun driving on the twisty mountain road. On the way home we stopped into visit the Inyo National Forest, Bristlecone Pine (Patriarch Grove). This route starts climbing in Big Pine, CA, at just under 4000' and ends at about 11000'. Excellent performer, even at altitude. On the trip, there was no time I couldn't keep up with traffic, in many cases, I was leading the pack.

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Really?! What would those be?

There are excellent wagons in that price point ($28-30K) from Mazda, Volkswagen, Audi, or Lexus. The VW and Audi wagons even have AWD options.

I'd think the VW and Audis would have better handling than a Forester, but their reliability isn't exactly legendary.

An Audi or Lexus--we're talking NEW cars here, right?--for $28-30K? With AWD? And 210 or more HP? You must have connections I don't have.

Right: A VW is out of the contest due to reliability. Even a VW, with the V6 and "4Motion," I think would go for more than $30, sticker.

I didn't know there is an AWD Mazda. You mean that little "Mazda3"? Or the wagon "Mazda6"? With 200+ HP? Might be under $30, if available. "Better" would be a matter of opinion.

HW

Audi A4 is $26k and a hell of a lot better looking than a WRX wagon. VW is the same company and I would drive a Lada if it had Audi's paddle shift transmission which is in the Golf GTI and Audi TT. There is an AWD Mazda coming and presumably a Ford Focus will follow. All Subarus marketing of AWD is starting to pay off, for other manufacturers.

no. The AWD Mazda is the Mazdaspeed 6. It comes out next summer. It has a

2.3L direct injection turbo 4 cyl. With 9.5 to 1 compression for more low end torque, it has 274hp and 280 lbs-ft of torque, 6 spd manual and electronic controlled AWD with 18" wheels.. They will not give the price till january. for more info goto

Keep up? You can pass, no problem (at least in the MT; haven't driven the AT much).

I've gone up really steep (much steeper than the Grapevine) hills in both MT and AT Forester XSs. Both had plenty of power. In the MT, you'll definitely downshift from time to time (at 55, passing gear is 3rd). I'm sure the AT will downshift for you too--I've only driven that in town, but up seriously steep stuff (I think around 19% grade), no problems at all.

How about a new 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 for $22,999 (after $750 rebate)which I purchased today. Yes it was a lost leader "one only at this price" ad, but it was available when I got to the dealer a few minutes after they opened. It would leave the XT behind in the dust going up a hill. I loved the Forester, but I was hestitant because the dealers are spaced so far apart. Even in the busiest area of West Los Angeles there is only one dealer in the area (Santa Monica). After that you have to go into the Valley or Long Beach, both would take over an hour in typical L.A. traffic. With Toyota, there are at least 9 dealers within a 45 minute drive from my house.

Dude. The MSRP of the Forester XT w/ automatic transmission and destination/delivery is about $26.5K. The Forester XT Limited will add to the price.

The Audi A4 and VW Passat have the same underpinnings. I still stand by my assertion that the VW/Audi cars will handle better than a Forester XT. Sticker of a VW Passat GLS 4Motion is $28,205 (automatic is standard).

The original poster didn't mention whether or not AWD was a must. There are some very good wagons (like the Mazda 6) that don't yet come in AWD.

Yes, exactly: a BASE LEVEL, 4-cyl, 180 HP A4 (and I'm not sure that would buy a base wagon) is $26K. Upgrade it to 4Motion and the V-6, and you're well north of $30K. Depending on time of year, incentives, etc., a Forester XT Premium can be had for significantly less. Does the Audi look better? Of course. The Forester is what it is, no more. Personally, I think the funky look has character.

Can't argue with the dealer availability point. Fortunately, I haven't needed my dealer (only about 5 miles away) in my first 15 months, except I have gone there for oil changes.

I don't see the 4Runner as a competitor or comparable vehicle in relation to the Forester. This is apples and oranges. You have a fine truck, no question. But it is a truck, which is OK if that's what you need. It weighs---what?---maybe 4,000 pounds? That's why I didn't get an SUV or truck: why in the world would I need 2 tons or more to haul me to work?

Climb hills better? Of course your Toyota will do that better compared to the Forester, assuming you mean rough, steep, off-road stuff. On the driving I'll bet both of us do 95% or more of the time, my XT can out-accelerate and out-maneuver a 4Runner anytime.

HW

And does that come with leather? Sunroof (or moonrooff--I can never recall what the right term is) and, if it does, one the size of the XT's? (Maybe GLS means "Great Leather and Sunroof"?!) AND if you're still talking 4 cyl. engine, with all the weight of 4Motion, you're talking slug. The XT will be at 60 MPH while the Audi's still huffing up to the 40 MPH mark.

Handling? Of course. Or at least the Audi/VW should handle better. For that money, and for a lower CG, lower profile vehicle, why wouldn't it handle better?

True, but he implied better values in comparable vehicles. AWD has to be part of the equation for a comparison.

What exactly are you saying no to?

Have you ever thought of maybe looking something up for once instead of asking rhetorical questions?

The 4 motion v6 VW is $29k with 240hp and a hell of a lot lighter than the Forester. None of these cars were ever direct competitors for Subaru but Subaru has it in their head now that they don't want anyone buying their vehicles but upscale luxury seeking buyers. This is a dangerous road to take when they start pricing their cars into true luxury car territory. Since you have it in your head that a V6 is good, and the Forrester doesn't currently offer one here, we have to go to the Legacy Outback. That starts at $33k with a boxer 6, people could save a lot of money by getting the Nissan Murano with 246hp for under $27k.

Sure, if the answer isn't self-evident.

You may quibble with this source; if so, fine, find your favorite. But Consumer Guide at

says a Passat with 4Motion weighs 3,721 lbs. The same source at says the Forester weighs 3,090 lbs. I'd guess the Forester number to be low by a couple hundred pounds (an XT Premium weighs 3,300 lbs., as I've seen in some source I don't recall). But whatever the Forester weighs, it's clearly over 400 lbs. lighter than a Passat.

I brought up the V6 because that was the only way the power in a VW could come close to the Forester's turbocharged motor, which is quite capable of competing with brands you've mentioned, even the Murano, which Consumer Guide )(see

says weighs over 3,900 lbs. Hauling all that--at least 600 lbs. more than a Forester XT--with a mere 246 HP, it would be no match for an XT. Though nominally the XT is rated at 210 HP, word on the street has it really turning out something more like 230-240 HP. Virtually the same engine in the 2005 Outback is rated at 250 HP, and starts at just over $28K. By the way, to get that kind of power in the Outback, the buyer needn't go to the H-6, which has the same horsepower rating. So the $33K for an H-6 is irrelevant. As for Nissan, yes, they make good motors. But would you really want to live with their interior materials quality?

I'm talking about the Golf R32.