Japan VERSUS US Assembly

That must have been the first-generation Legacy, since the second and third generation models have all come from Lafayette, Indiana (not Colorado).

It's difficult to make a correlation, because all the Impreza-based cars (Impreza, WRX, STi, Outback Sport, Forester) are Japanese, and all the Legacy-based cards (Legacy, Outback, Baja) are made in Indiana.

My US-built Legacy GT was largely problem-free. My Japan-built WRX has had one problem after another because of its shoddy build quality. That's not a statistically valid sample, but there you go.

problem after another because of its shoddy build quality. That's not a statistically valid sample, but there you go.

>

one problem after another because of its shoddy build quality. That's not a statistically valid sample, but there you go.

Subarus are generally regarded as amongst the best built and most reliable cars in the world and score highly in ownership satisfaction surveys. There is. however, an impression given in this newsgroup - probably false - that Subarus are problematic in the US. I suspect that this is primarily because of a general tendency to complain, blame, seek compensation and post about it to newsgroups amongst a minority of US motorists. It might also have something to do with driving and maintenance practices.

Another theory would be that US-assembled Subarus are not put together as well as those which are built in Japan or that US dealerships don't do as good a job in pre-delivery and servicing.....in which case you would accept the same to be true of other high-quality Japanese brands with US assembly facilities. I have no idea whether or not this is the case.

I do know that in Europe the brands which are having real problems with quality control and plummeting reputations are Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

David Betts snipped-for-privacy@motorsport.org.uk

Could you expand on this? Which exact STi, when did you get it, what problems, how many miles, etc.?

...Ron

David, once again, has nailed it. It's the complaining, finger-pointing, litigious, whining, "ham-footed", neglectful American drivers!

Ham-handed American dealers!

I believe ham-handed Americans are now building BMW's in South Carolina. There goes the quality! But seriously, were BMW's _ever_ reliable?

I'm reminded of visitor to US auto plant that said he saw workers drunk on the assembly line and smoking pot in the parking lot. OTOH the worst car I ever had, a Mercury Lynx was assembled in Mexico and one of my best, a Nissan Sentra was assembled in the USA ;) Frank

Who knows? who cares? They are expensive, attractive, and that's about all it takes to be successful. (sad, ain't it?)

build quality.

It's not an STi. It's a WRX, as I said. I got it in March 2002. Its problems have included bad electrical grounding that caused engine stumbles, a failed electric window motor, a failed center differential, a failed air conditioning compressor and a failed a/c high-pressure line. That's a lot of problems in two and a half years, and more problems than my previous three cars combined (one of which was a US-built Subaru).

build quality.

have included bad electrical grounding that caused engine stumbles, a failed electric window motor, a failed center differential, a failed air conditioning compressor and a failed a/c high-pressure line. That's a lot of problems in two and a half years, and more problems than my previous three cars combined (one of which was a US-built Subaru).

I agree that's a lot of problems, but they don't sound "build quality" related. Sounds more like bad parts. Assembly shouldn't have caused any of those problems except, potentially, the grounding issue.

Stu

I believe I said 'minority of' . Interestingly, the latest version of the largest ownership satisfaction survey in the UK has just come out. It covers 137 models over two years with a sample of more than

40,000 owners. Both the Impreza and the Legacy score in the top 15. There are three or four Mercedes models in the bottom 10! David Betts snipped-for-privacy@motorsport.org.uk

David,

Is there any way we could see those satisfaction survey results?

Thanks.

HW

From a posting in (!!!!) nz.general yesterday:

Here are the results of the Top Gear Motoring Survey, the most widely-commissioned independent survey of car owners ever. You rated your motor for reliability, driving enjoyment and dealer service. All respondents' claims have been verified, to provide the definitive verdict on 137 cars from 35 car makers, registered between September

1999 and February 2002.

The Top 10... (Model: score - overall ranking)

1: Jaguar XJ Series - 90.9 2: Toyota Yaris - 90.5 3: Skoda Octavia - 90.4 4: Lexus IS200 - 90.2 5: Honda S2000 - 89.8 6: Mazda MX-5 - 88.9 7: Toyota Celica (new) - 88.4 8: BMW Z3 - 88.3 9: Mazda 323 - 88.1 10: Subaru Legacy - 88.1 11: Skoda Fabia - 88.1 12: Porsche 911 - 88.0 13: Rover MG ZT - 88.0 14: Honda HR-V - 88.0 15: Subaru Impreza (new) - 87.9 16: BMW X5 - 87.7 17: Subaru Forester - 87.3 18: Mazda 626 - 87.0 19: MCC Smart - 86.9 20: Porsche Boxster - 86.7 21: Toyota RAV4 (new) - 86.6 22: Toyota Corolla (pre-Dec 01) - 86.4 23: BMW 5-Series - 86.4 24: Honda CR-V - 86.3 25: Honda Accord - 86.3 26: Subaru Impreza (pre-Oct 00) - 86.2 27: Hyundai Coupe (pre-Jan 02) - 85.9 28: Honda Civic (new) - 85.7 29: Honda Civic (pre-Dec 00) - 85.5 30: Jaguar XK8/R - 85.5 31: BMW 3-Series - 85.5 32: BMW 3-Series (Compact) - 85.2 33: Toyota MR2 (new) - 85.0 34: Mini One/Cooper - 84.7 35: Volvo S60 - 84.5 36: Saab 9-5 - 84.5 37: Audi A4 (pre-Jan 01) - 84.4 38: Audi A6 - 84.3 39: Skoda Felicia - 84.0 40: Toyota Avensis - 84.0 41: Ford Puma - 83.9 42: Jaguar S-Type - 83.8 43: Lotus Elise (pre-Dec 01) - 83.8 44: Audi A4 (new) - 83.8 45: Seat Toledo - 83.7 46: Nissan Micra - 83.3 47: Rover MG ZS - 82.4 48: Rover 75 - 82.2 49: Ford Cougar - 82.1 50: Nissan Primera (pre-Feb 02) - 82.0 51: Ford Focus - 82.0 52: Audi A3 - 80.2 53: Seat Leon - 81.8 54: Volvo V70 - 81.7 55: Citroen Berlingo - 81.7 56: Audi TT - 81.6 57: Mercedes E-Class - 81.6 58: Hyundai Accent (new) - 81.5 59: Saab 9-3 - 81.4 60: Volvo V40 - 81.4 61: Volvo S80 - 81.0 62: Chrysler PT Cruiser - 80.9 63: Seat Arosa - 80.9 64: Nissan Almera - 80.7 65: Vauxhall Corsa (new) - 80.5 66: Daewoo Lanos - 80.4 67: Daewoo Matiz - 80.3 68: Chrysler Neon (new) - 80.3 69: Mitsubishi Galant - 80.3 70: Mercedes SLK - 80.2 71: Audi A2 - 80.1 72: Rover 400 - 80.1 73: Suzuki Grand Vitara - 80.0 74: Vauxhall Omega - 79.9 75: Lotus Elise (new) - 79.8 76: Vauxhall Zafira - 79.8 77: Merc C-Class (pre-Sept 00) - 79.7 78: Volkswagen Passat - 79.6 79: Volkswagen Bora - 79.5 80: Rover 45 - 79.4 81: Ford Ka - 79.3 82: Kia Sedona - 79.1 83: Volvo C70 - 79.1 84: Rover 200 - 79.0 85: Alfa Romeo 166 - 78.9 86: Mercedes CLK - 78.9 87: Seat Ibiza - 78.7 88: Vauxhall Astra - 78.7 89: Volvo S40 - 78.7 90: Citroen Xsara - 78.4 91: Ford Mondeo (new) - 78.3 92: Ford Fiesta (pre-April 02) - 78.2 93: Fiat Multipla - 77.9 94: Volkswagen Lupo - 77.7 95: Vauxhall Corsa (pre-Oct 00) - 77.3 96: Volkswagen Polo (pre-Jan 02) - 77.3 97: Volkswagen Beetle - 77.0 98: Land Rover Discovery - 77.0 99: Seat Alhambra - 76.7 100: Renault Laguna (pre-Dec 00) - 76.6 101: Rover 25 - 76.6 102: Fiat Marea - 76.6 103: Rover MG ZR - 76.6 104: Jaguar X-Type - 76.4 105: Ford Mondeo (pre-Oct 00) - 76.3 106: Volkswagen Golf - 76.3 107: Renault Megane - 76.2 108: Renault Scenic - 76.0 109: Fiat Seicento - 76.0 110: Vauxhall Vectra - 75.9 111: Renault Clio - 75.8 112: Alfa Romeo GTV - 75.8 113: Peugeot 306 - 75.7 114: Ford Escort - 75.6 115: Jeep Grand Cherokee - 75.4 116: Alfa Romeo 147 - 75.1 117: Fiat Brava - 75.0 118: Peugeot 406 - 74.8 119: Mitsubishi Carisma - 74.7 120: Land Rover Defender - 74.5 121: Peugeot 206 - 74.3 122: Citroen C5 - 74.1 123: Rover MGF - 74.0 124: Peugeot 106 - 73.8 125: Fiat Bravo - 73.8 126: Mercedes A-Class - 73.7 127: Mercedes C-Class (new) - 73.6 128: Citroen Saxo - 73.2 129: Ford Galaxy - 73.1 130: Land Rover Freelander - 73.1 131: Alfa Romeo 156 - 72.9 132: Fiat Punto (new) - 72.5 133: Mercedes M-Class - 69.6 134: Renault Laguna (new) - 68.9 135: Peugeot 307 - 68.7 136: Renault Espace - 68.2 137: Volkswagen Sharan - 67.1

Thanks Bruce. It should also be available on the Top Gear website, but I haven't bothered to go and look . Not the easiest thing in the world to interpret, but I'd tend to rate anything scoring 85 and upwards as pretty good. Below that and you need to be thinking about how important things like fit, finish and reliability are to you.....with the caveat that even the most unreliable cars of today are a lot more reliable than they were 10 or 15 years ago, let alone

20 or 30.

Anyway, I think it makes the point that there is nothing to worry about with Scoobies.

David Betts snipped-for-privacy@motorsport.org.uk