Nitrogen

I've just had Michelin Pilot Sports fitted on the WRX and decided to try the nitrogen option instead of air. The claims seem reasonable and the cost low. Has anyone tried it and with what results?

-- Clive Norris Selectron (UK) Ltd

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Reply to
Clive
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What is nitrogen supposed to do that air doesnt? I know that they use nitrogen in some electrical conduits to combat moisture, but even then I am not really sure why nitrogen must be used instead of dry air.

Thanks,

--Dan

Reply to
dg

Nitrogen has been used in Formula one cars for some years and other high speed tyre applications such as aircraft tyres according to the sales pitch. The benefits are very low pressure loss (larger molecules) cooler running giving up to 25% lower wear, 5% better fuel consumption and quieter running. At £1.75 ($3) per tyre inflation cost (they say at least 3 months between top-ups) it's worth a try. It's only just hit the market over here so little user feed-back so far. We'll see.

Clive Norris Selectron (UK) Ltd

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Reply to
Clive

Reply to
Edward Hayes

It's a service offered by the tyre suppliers on-site and is dry otherwise no point as you say.

Reply to
Clive

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:46:41 GMT, "Clive" wrote in news:VNr1b.5006$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk:

Sounds like you were sold a bill of goods.

The only benefits for the average vehicle is the resistance to corrosion of wheels and deterioration of the tire construction through removing any available Oxygen. Apparently this corrosion can also contribute to the debris which causes the valves to jam partly open and leak.

Trucks use Nitrogen to increase carcass life by slowing the effects of deterioration. Car tires rarely last long enough for this to be a problem. For the Model A which gets driven a couple of hundred kms a year, maybe this is a good thing.

Nitrogen is used in racing because it eliminates water from the gas in the tire and creates more stable and predictable pressures, which is vital for peak performance. Warm humid climates can contain as much as 6% water vapour.

I have seen no evidence that tires run cooler or quieter.

Air is mostly Nitrogen, so clearly the size of the molecules is the same.

Air by volume Nitrogen N2 78.084 % Oxygen O2 20.9476 % Argon Ar 0.934 % Carbon Dioxide CO2 0.0314 % Neon Ne 0.001818 % Methane CH4 0.0002 % Helium He 0.000524 % Krypton Kr 0.000114 % Hydrogen H2 0.00005 % Xenon Xe 0.0000087 %

Reply to
Dave Null Sr.

Where I live, all cylinders of nitrogen are dry. You can't get anything else. Your milage may vary.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

I am well aware of the composition of air....but water vapour seems to be missing from your analysis which is rather relevant in this context. I wasn't 'sold' anything...I bought it to try with a reasonable grasp of the chemistry and physics involved....my profession in an earlier life. There is plenty of discussion on the web on the subject and pro v con is about equal although most of the con comment comes from armchair experts it would appear who have not tried it. For £7 it's worth a try...and a hell of lot cheaper than most snake oil products aimed at motorists. I'm open-minded....you apparently are not. As a footnote...the UK has very strict legislation regarding claims made for products called the Trades Description Act. If this is bullshit then the company selling the system to tyre suppliers will have a short life.

Reply to
Clive

Well, of course it's not. People use Helium to fill their kids balloons, not nitrogen.

Reply to
someone

Reply to
Edward Hayes

I asked for qualified ie hands on opinion. I get a lecture as if I'm some round-eyed hillbilly from an expert armed with an opinion and nothing else. Thanks. I'm not even convinced myself but at least I can give a user report after a reasonable length of time. You do silly sums and talk down to people. This might be a good and cheap tweak and thus of interest to the NG...or not so no-one else wastes their money.

Reply to
Clive

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 22:19:03 GMT, "Clive" wrote in news:uFw1b.6600$ snipped-for-privacy@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk:

Facts mostly, and some opinion. This is usenet get used to it.

You're awfully defensive. Sounds like cognitive dissonance of post-purchase justification.

Nothing silly about numbers. No insults either, unlike yourself.

So you think maybe you wasted your money and you're upset with a rational discussion of fact exploring the perceived benefits?

Reply to
Dave Null Sr.

I'll try helium on my Subie's tires (including the spare)... I guess the resulting effective reduction in weight will give me an added boost in power... ;-)

wrote

Reply to
Cixcos

I believe Helium is the second smallest atom (or molecule when they cruise around in pairs) next to Hydrogen. You might experience a lot more seepage.

Reply to
null_pointer

I have used nitrogen now for about 4,000kms. I don't know about giving better tire life as it is too early to say, but I do know that the nitrogen in the tire does not heat up as much as the standard compressed air. WHen I had normal compressed air in my tires and did a highway trip at say 120km/h (75mph) the tires would go from cold 32psi up to 36-37psi hot. Now that I've put nitrogen in the tires I go from cold 32psi to 34psi hot.

From what I've heard on the subject it is heat which causes the most problem for wear in tires. Ride comfort seems to be better as the tire pressure when hot is not as great. There also does seem to be truth in the fact that the tire does not need to be topped up all the time. In the 4,000kms of driving so far the pressure has stayed virtually the same (pressures vary due to ambient temperatures).

Reply to
Lance B

One problem I can see: car manufacturers take the heating effect into consideration when setting tire pressures, that's why they tell you to check the tires cold. There might be a need to use a higher cold pressure setting with nitrogen because of the fact they will not heat up as much.

Also, as for the gov't agencies looking out for frauds, don't hold your breath!! Practical Classics, a British magazine, has been following the story of a manufacturer of a fuel improving add on for some time, and it took the gov't a long time to put them out of the market (item was a small fitting that was inserted in the fuel line that would "catalyse" the fuel, giving much better mileage). Of course, no one but the manufacturer could get any fuel mileage improvement with it!!!

Ed B.

Reply to
ed

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