Oil filters--a Fram story

I think it's apples and oranges. When Fram builds filters for an OEM customer, they build them to their specifications. Honda most likely gave them and all the other filter builders a stack of drawings and the company that could build it cheapest and still pass Honda's quality control got the deal.

Now Fram may or may not use that filter design for their orange- box filter. I hope they do. But my point is that all we've learned is that Fram got a Honda contract for filters, not that they've improved their product line across the board.

As for me, $5 for a white Subaru filter with crush washer is a fine deal.

Just because it is made by Fram, doesn't mean it is a Fram filter. I would guess it is made to Honda specifications.

Jack

Reminds me that I've got to look into a K&N! I frammed my car @6wks ago after an oil change because, IIRC, it was only $12 but my MPG has decreased, now at @23 as opposed to the 25-26 I had been getting. So I think I'll spring for a K&N, burn a couple tanks and then get an oil change, and see wth happens.

Terry - '03 Silver Legacy SE sedan - 36 miles! '02 Regatta-Red GT wagon 5spd - 23k miles Yakima / TandeMover / Rockymount rack To reply, get rid of the "nonsense"

91` Legacy L+ with 103000 miles, always used Fram filters and Mobil 1 since first oil change, never any problems.

Used Fram filters on my '82 GL for years. Engine was running fine at ~316000 mi - never replaced any internal engine parts. Had to get rid of the car on account of severe rust. My current car which is another '82 GL has ~238000 mi on it and I'm using Fram filters.

I used to use Fram (from the mid 70's) until I read a lot of bad opinions, including one supposedly from a Fram engineer....sorry, the link doesn't work anymore, but the rest of the article is here:

'm not sure about the older Subarus, but in the 2002 Impreza, thefilter is mounted upside down, which means that there is nopossibility of the filter draining back into the crankcase which willwork in your favor if you get a cheap filter. A few winters ago inMinnesota, I didn't drive my Nissan altima for a few weeks (had awinter vehicle) and when I started it up there was a very loud timingchain rattle until the filter was full. That was a fram filtermounted in such a way as to be able to drain on engine shutdown. Iswitched to an AC filter and never had the noise again

I had my old hot rod at a mechanics house for a tranny swap. When I = picked the car up he told me he threw away my Fram oil filter and = installed a real filter.=20

When a good fella does something like that and only charged the exact = cost of a filter, I believe all the other bad reports now.

You'll also find it here: In all fairness to Fram, people always reference that study without apparently reading the whole thing. While the base model Fram filter may be crap, the study actually has very good things to say about the Fram model one step up from the base model: The Tough Guard?. I just have problems with people painting the whole Fram line with the same broad brush and referencing that study to back up a statement that it doesnt support.

BTW - I use Purolator Pure One?, so I really don't care except that I think people ought to be fair about it.

Actually gravity will pull oil down to empty out the galleys, without n antidrainback valve even if the filter is vertical. Granted, that's not nearly as bad as 1/3 or 1/2 of the filter volume draining back down with a tilted filter, but there is still some run-dry time while the galleys fill back up.

Also, some people may not be aware of this fact, but with only one exception (one part number in one brand) that I know of, even the cheap filters have an antidrainback valve. They may be made of inferior materials (silicone is the best), and so they may leak down over time, but they do have the valve.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Hi, Bill

What you're talking about is one of the reasons I originally said I don't know whether or not they (Fram) deserve the bashing. In fairness to Fram, my Subie is the ONLY car I've had that's as darn picky about oil filters as it is! (And yes, I've tried the Fram Tough Guard in the Subie--no joy. Just as much valve noise--even after using MMO for some time--and loss of pressure as with the orange ones.) So it generally gets OEM unless I'm feeling "experimental."

OTOH, I've gotten nearly 200k miles out of one engine, 135k out of another (it got stolen--but I know 200k or better would have been quite likely there), using just everyday orange Frams and Castrol GTX. No exotic filter, no exotic oil, just a 3,000 mile change routine (and we don't need to get off on THAT tangent here!) But then I've also gotten over 100k out of a couple of engines that didn't even HAVE an oil filter, again with dino oil and the same change interval (sold 'em, both running quite well), so maybe filters are overrated WRT their contributions to engine longevity.

Any idea why Subies seem so picky about oil filters? A buddy (who ran Corvairs years ago) claims "hydraulic lifters + flat engine = valve noise." Period. Could he be right?

Rick

Certainly seems that way since Subes historically have touchy lifters. I guess what he's getting at is that with a "normal" engine, the lifters tend to be vertical or close to it, so gravity helps in getting the oil into the lifter port, whereas, wiht the lifters laying over, the diesingers have to fight an uphill battle.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

My local garage put a Fram filter on my 2.5 legacy and it leaked terribly from the rubber seal. I had to replace it with a genuine Subaru item.

David

Seems there was a discussion maybe a year ago (??) about some of the 2.5 engines not using the same filter number as others? I'm guessing Tony's right that the wrong filter was installed (assuming somebody checked for tightness before pulling the leaky filter?) Leaky filters from "factory defects" seem to be pretty rare today. "Installer defects" are a different story!

Rick

Also a possibility that it got double-gasketted (old gasket stuck to filter bracket), though some of the other possible explanations sound more plausible. Just thought I'd mention it.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

True. Although it really didn't occur to me cuz of the way I was trained as a kid working in a gas station (back when they were "service" stations! And dinosaurs still walked the earth? :D)

Anyway, my boss was a PITA about inspecting the filters we took off for gaskets, and wiping down the face of the filter mount just to make sure there wasn't a spare stuck on there. He'd have KILLED us if there was a failure due to a double gasket--I think "not guilty by reason of installer defect" would have been his defense!

Rick

Well I tried tightening it before trailing to the dealership to buy a new one and it helped a little, but not really much.

When I took it off, it looked fine (apart from being covered in oil). I didn't notice any gasket problems.

The Subaru item looked _identical_, although I didn't measure it. I thought at the time 'This is going to make no difference at all' - but I was wrong - the leaking stopped dead.

David