ON Topic: 88 Supra overheating...

I'd get it apart within 2 weeks - and if you clean up and lightly grease or oil the block deck surface (as well as the cyls) you can take your time about putting it back together. Make sure you get the surface PERFECTLY clean.

Get ALL of the antifreeze out of the cyls and put ATF around the rings.Wipe down the cyl walls with a clean oiled rag (I usually use ATF for this too) Cover the engine with a good clean cloth to keep dirt out.

Reply to
clare
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Thanks. I have to see about getting a space to work. I have a very SMALL garage, and while I did the plugs there it was a somewhat tight fit. The garage my guitar player works at is ~22 miles away, so I think maybe the car might "break down" somewhere within 3 miles of home and AAA will have to tow it to the shop...

Reply to
Hachiroku

Not sure what that means, but why wait?

As long as you take care of covering up the block, you can leave the engine open as long as needed. Like if you want to get the head planed.

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Reply to
Gary L Burnore

Gee, that'd be a shame if it broke down and they had to tow it for free.

Reply to
Gary L Burnore

;)

Reply to
Hachiroku

OK, you thoroughly got me running scared now...

I have the new radiator in, and ordered a Genuine cap and t-stat from Toyota. The radiator is full, but I have as yet not started the car to circulate coolant. What should I do? Should I try starting it at all, or just, as you say, "PARK IT AND PULL THE HEAD", period?

Reply to
Hachiroku

Use your little garage, do a compression test. Likely, Cyl 6 is lower than the rest. (That's usually where those go, back by the upper coolant tube. Just to close to the jacket there.

If all pressure is fine, drive it till it pukes. If one or two are way low or if all are fairly low, replace or repair.

Reply to
Gary L Burnore

Don't take a chance on doing more damage.

Reply to
clare

ok dude, i love a lot of your contributions, but that one is pure bullshit. and if you're confused about "de-ionized" being a misnomer for the product of a water softener, you still have an understanding problem. de-ionized is the product of reverse osmosis and while not perfectly pure, is pretty danged close. certainly close enough as to be indistinguishable for this application.

yet another reason to do it yourself. dealers should know better - if they bother to read their manufacturer service bulletins anyway.

show me one garage that's ever had the chemistry equipment to buffer an antifreeze solution. just one.

what pH is that supposed to be then???

meaning what? put numbers to it.

you don't get "false negatives" with this test. and stop wriggling - you were bleating about the cost of a false positive.

again, stop wriggling. coolant in the lube is a whole different issue. we [i] was talking about exhaust leaking directly into the coolant. like on an open deck honda.

like i said, you're only getting to see late stage, not early. i don't disregard your experience - although i'm not /that/ far behind you - but i've bothered to study beyond the simple "obvious" cases, and as i said before, early stage can be very non-obvious.

no, it's because of thermal distortion. the "pressure", i.e. pressurized coolant as it warms, works /against/ gas leakage, it doesn't assist it.

nope. see above.

if you think that's what you're seeing, you don't understand what you're looking at. you cannot filter a solute from a solution - by definition.

what is this "buffering agent" clare? and which way does it buffer? serious question.

so, it's $14 for an accurate diagnosis. [to the man in the street, not the dealer.] hardly a serious consideration when looking at whether to drop a grand on a gasket job wouldn't you say? not if you're being rational anyway.

again, you're confused. the results of leakage, like corrosion and erosion are not causes. and incorrect bolt torque, or even bolt failure [remember bmw?] is a whole different issue again.

classic overheat, like when an old radiator is clogged or a thermostat fails, causes the head to bow. if you don't believe that, you need to study this topic some more - and bother to look into [and think about] why it's the middle pistons where the gasket fails.

which actually accords with what i was saying - if you bothered to think about it and weren't so intent on simply trying to argue a contrary position.

see above.

Reply to
jim beam

You are full of it. Reverse osmosis water is NOT de-ionized water. de-ionized water is an almost universal solvent, in that it will grab ions from anything it contacts - causing rapid deterioration of things like aluminum radiators.

Their service buletins will warn specifically AGAINST de-ionized water. Soft water is definitely better than hard (naturally soft, not softened) and distilled is definitely OK - but you want ionically balanced water of neutral pH for cooling systems.

Tap water sourced from surface water is just fine. Water from deep wells is suspect - usually too alkaline, and too high in TDS (Total disolved solids) - which will scale up the cooling system.

Reply to
clare

clare, sorry dude - but you're fundamentally misinformed on that. the difference between de-ionized is practically zero, and for radiator purposes /is/ zero. if you have experience of "de-ionized" causing problems, it wasn't de-ionized, it was softened, a whole different animal and that indeed can be corrosive.

utter bullshit.

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unless you think that hydroxide and hydronium ions are a problem.

more bullshit. "surface water" has a multitude of chemistries. and well water can be fine - it all depends on substrate. you're WAY out of your depth on this one.

Reply to
jim beam

Deionization

The process used for removal of all dissolved salts from water is referred to as deionization. Deionization requires the flow of water through two ion exchange materials in order to effect the removal of all salt content.

Deionization. The terms demineralization and deionization are used somewhat interchangeably by the industry. While the term demineralization is generally better understood, deionization is especially apt.

The passage of water through the first exchange material removes the calcium and magnesium ions just as in the normal softening process. Unlike home equipment, deionization units also remove all other positive metallic ions in the process and replace them with hydrogen ions instead of sodium ions.

As the metallic ions in the water affix themselves to the exchange material, the latter releases its hydrogen ions on a chemically equivalent basis. A sodium ion (Na+) displaces one hydrogen ion (H+) from the exchanger; a calcium ion (Ca++) displaces two hydrogen ions; a ferric ion (Fe+++) displaces three hydrogen ions, etc. (Recall that home softeners also release two sodium ions for every calcium or magnesium ion they attract.)

This exchange of the hydrogen ions for metallic ions on an equivalent basis is chemical necessity that permits the exchange material to maintain a balance of electrical charges.

Now because of the relatively high concentration of hydrogen ions, the solution is very acid.

At this point the deionization process is just half complete. While the positive metallic ions have been removed, the water now contains positive hydrogen ions, and the anions originally in the raw water.

The partially treated water now flows through a second unit, this time an anion exchange material normally consists of replaceable hydroxyl anions and fixed irreplaceable cations.

Now the negative ions in solution (the anions) are absorbed into the anion exchange material. Released in their place are hydroxyl anions.

All that emerges from such a two unit system is ion-free water. It still contains the positive hydrogen ions released in the initial exchange plus the negative hydroxyl ions released in the second exchange.

What has become of these two ions? Through the magic of chemistry they have combined (positive to negative) to produce water molecules which are in no way different from the water in which they were produced.

The result of this two-stage ion exchange process is water that is mineral-free.

Equipment for use in the deionization process may be of several types. Available are both multiple bed and single bed units. Multiple bed units have pairs of tanks, one for the cation exchanger, the other for the anion exchanger. Single bed units incorporate both the cation and anion exchangers, mixed in a single tank.

Deionized water has a wide range of uses in industry. Chemical production, pharmaceuticals, electroplating, television tube production and leather goods processing are among the many diversified applications for deionized water.

Reverse Osmosis

Reverse osmosis (RO) is the most economical method of removing 90% to

99% of all contaminants. The pore structure of RO membranes is much tighter than UF membranes. RO membranes are capable of rejecting practically all particles, bacteria and organics >300 daltons molecular weight (including pyrogens). In fact, reverse osmosis technology is used by most leading water bottling plants.

Natural osmosis occurs when solutions with two different concentrations are separated by a semi-permeable membrane. Osmotic pressure drives water through the membrane; the water dilutes the more concentrated solution; and the end result is an equilibrium.

In water purification systems, hydraulic pressure is applied to the concentrated solution to counteract the osmotic pressure. Pure water is driven from the concentrated solution and collected downstream of the membrane.

Because RO membranes are very restrictive, they yield slow flow rates. Storage tanks are required to produce an adequate volume in a reasonable amount of time.

RO also involves an ionic exclusion process. Only solvent is allowed to pass through the semi-permeable RO membrane, while virtually all ions and dissolved molecules are retained (including salts and sugars). The semi-permeable membrane rejects salts (ions) by a charge phenomena action: the greater the charge, the greater the rejection. Therefore, the membrane rejects nearly all (>99%) strongly ionized polyvalent ions but only 95% of the weakly ionized monovalent ions like sodium.

Reverse osmosis is highly effective in removing several impurities from water such as total dissolved solids (TDS), turbidity, asbestos, lead and other toxic heavy metals, radium, and many dissolved organics. The process will also remove chlorinated pesticides and most heavier-weight VOCs. Reverse osmosis and activated carbon filtration are complementary processes. Combining them results in the most effective treatment against the broadest range of water impurities and contaminants.

RO is the most economical and efficient method for purifying tap water if the system is properly designed for the feed water conditions and the intended use of the product water. RO is also the optimum pretreatment for reagent-grade water polishing systems

_Water Purification Text____________________________________________

According to tis, there is a 5% difference in removal rates of monovalent ions like sodium, and only a 1% difference in covalent ions.

_CS____________________________________________________________

Deionized water goes through basically the same process as softened water - ionic exchange - but substitutes hydrogen ions instead of sodium ions. The positive and negative hydrogen ions combine to produce pure water, so they are taken intirely out of the equation.

Deionized water is neutral in pH (7) but very quickly becomes acidic as it has a strong afinity for CO2 from the air, forming carbonic acid.

Reverse osmosis water is very similar in this regard but has somebuffering capacity due to the presence of a low level of monovalent ions.

Distilled water has a less agressive affinity for CO2, as well as having a varying buffering capability due to the presence of SOME monovalent and co-valent ons, so does not acidify quite as quickly.

Both reverse Osmosis and deionized water are considered to be "agressive" - but in a chemically different way than "hard" or highly mineralized water. _CS______________________________________________________________

From the Work Health Organization guides for drinking water quality:

Demineralised water is highly aggressive and if untreated, its distribution through pipes and storage tanks would not be possible. The aggressive water attacks the water distribution piping and leaches metals and other materials from the pipes and associated plumbing materials. _WHO_____________________________________________________________

Reply to
clare

i don't know where you found this little nugget, but it is incorrect. [you should always cite your source.]

spoken like a true ignorant.

utter drivel.

outstanding! who wrote this crap?

you don't understand the science clare - as evidenced by the fact that you're trying to defend the indefensible and digging up unattributed bullshit written by others that don't understand. "de-ionized" has the precursor "de" in it. not "re". ions are _removed_. the only difference be de-ionized and distilled [to the order of ppb anyway] is organics, which in radiator water don't matter,

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Reply to
jim beam

Yup, that looks like it would work, as would an electronic detector used to detect refrigerant or natural gas leaks.

Reply to
Ray O

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