Ordered a 2016 Legacy

..this morning! Driving in the rather brutal northeast winter early this year convinced me to switch from Honda to Subaru. I wanted an AWD sedan, and Subaru has it, and from all I've ever been told, has it done well. I've owned Hondas since 1982, including a 2013, and I've had enough. Besides, the sound system in the 2013 Accord is abominable. Not so in the Legacy Limited

2.5i. I think I'll be a happy boy. It'll be a couple of months, but I don't think it'll snow here in September.
Reply to
Howard Lester
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Why not the six cylinder? The Legacy is a great car, but the 2.5 engine has its quirks. Read about excessive oil consumption before you take delivery.

Reply to
abjjkst

" snipped-for-privacy@sbcglobal.net" wrote

Why not the six? Excess gasoline consumption and a higher price. Reading about the oil consumption issue, it seems Subaru may have fixed it for 2015. They issued a TSB for it last year. (Stories and surveys I'm looking at so far affect only through 2014 model years.) And, mine will be a 2016, and maybe they'll have *really* fixed it.

Reply to
Howard Lester

I have a 2014 Forester Limited 2.5 with 34,000 miles, a 2015 Outback Limited 2.5 with 7,500 miles, and my son has a 2014 Forester Premium 2.5 with 24,000 miles. FWIW, none of the cars has any oil consumption issue. I was not concerned at all about any oil consumption issue in the 2015 Outback and I wasn't willing to take the mpg hit that the 3.6 engine gives. I'm happy with the 2.5.

Reply to
PAS

Read about the past headgasket issue, to get a feel for how Subaru can handle some persistent problems. They never released info about the true cause of that issue. There sure were many TSB's, many attempts to solve the problem, 2 or 3 redesigned headgaskets, but never a true fix. Read: plenty of hopeful buyers, fooling themselves that the problem was sol ved for their manufacture year. Subaru never fully solved the issue which was most likely a design flaw. There was speculation among people that excessi ve vibration near the heads was the root cause. The stiffer closed-deck de sign engines of the turbo variants of that engine seemed not to suffer as m uch, if at all.

The new re-designed engine called FB 2.5L (instead of EJ 2.5L) solved the h eadgasket problem but turned out to have a big gremlin itself. Subaru seems to handle the problem in a similar fashion that the old problem was h andled. So far, there are reports of fixes, but nearly all manufacture yea rs are being reported on the internet as being affected, to varying degrees .

2016 will most likely also have some problematic units. To be honest there are plenty of people whose cars seem unaffected, or unaffected for the mome nt at least.

Now back to the 2016 Legacy. It's a nice car probably worth the bet. If yo u come down with the oil consumption issue it may be controlled through vig ilance, checking the oil level frequently, which is a good habit, BTW.

I am an avid MMO user, I add a small amount between 6-8 ounces of Marvel My stery Oil into every 10 gallons of gasoline. Have been doing this with my

2000 Impreza L Coupe since brand new. It has 107k miles on the odometer no w and the engine remains very very smooth-running with excellent compression. I attribute it to Marvel. Over the years I found that some of the MMO ma kes it into the crankcase as my oil level always slightly rises slightly ov er the oil change interval. At around 3000k I always end up with a slight overfill on the dipstick. It is likely not fuel dilution, as oil never sme lls of any fuel in it. Most likely it is just unburned Marvell seeping pas t rings.

Using a small amount of MMO in the gas regularly might be the perfect fix f or the oil consumption issue if you ever encounter it.

Good luck, the Legacy is a very nice car, and the newest one has beautiful clean looks, I am sure you will enjoy it.

Reply to
abjjkst

"PAS" wrote

Thank you. After quite a search on the subject, *most* people report no issues of any such sort. There are individual cars with issues, but most are unaffected. I did a lot of reading of related messages in the forum

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and individuals' responses corroborated my readings of other websites. Interesting that people discovered at different times after running the engine, the dipstick readings varied by as much as a half-quart -- maybe more. And, a slight tilt of the parking surface also affected their readings. So it is possible some oil-loss reports are based on faulty measurements. Also, one of the posters in the subaru legacygt forum cited oil-consumption issues -- with his 3.6L. My biggest surprise, coming from my initial posting last evening, was not a response of anything like, "It's a great car, I hope you enjoy yours," etc. etc. No, it was "Are you sure you want one of those?" My first response to

*that* should have been, "You remind me of my late mother: If I told her I bought X, she'd ask 'Why didn't you buy Y?'" (But yes, basia did today post good wishes, and I thank you.)

And another thing! ;-) The 4-cyl has plenty of acceleration for my needs. I twice test-drove a 2015 Legacy before making my final decision.

Reply to
Howard Lester

Congrats on the new car. I have a VW Passat that weighs a little under

3900 lbs. It's got a 1.8L turbo engine. Your engine seems way huge. :)
Reply to
dsi1

Such as?

Is that the same 2.5l that's in Outbacks? Mine hasn't been using oil excessively at all.

Patty

Reply to
Patty Winter

Since you didn't take delivery yet I just wanted you to know, ...be an informed buyer. What do I get for that, complaints. "No good deed goes unpunished" I guess. I am greatful this is just the internet, so even if you want to beat me up this, it will not happen.

People are what they are, some are rational others adaptive, some like to learn from others, some want to take a chance on a product themselves, and that is OK, as long as they are informed. But complaining for being presented with valid info that is just foolishness. There are fools out there, as a matter of fact the Bible states that the number of fools is infinite, Ecclestasticals 1:15, if memory serves me well.

I myself wanted to buy a Legacy but instead bought a Forester XT I grabbed the outgoing 2013 model to avoid potential problems with oil burning.

What spooked me? Have a look here:

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255 pages of posts about problems with oil consumption in FB engines in Foresters. The thread was so long it was eventually closed by the owners of the site. Multiple others soon appeared:

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maybe these thousands of people and two lawsuits class action that Subaru is litigating are just people not knowing how to take proper oil measurments? I doubt.

Any way, you should have thanked me not as much for my good wishes, but for the info, and primarily for the info on how to deal with the problem in case you are affected.

I think this is more valuable than wishes. MMO has not been mentioned as a potential solution, I shared my experienced with over 200k miles of use- 107k in a 2000 Impreza, and another 100k in a different vehicle, where I also experienced with the product slightly rising oil levels over 3000 miles oil change interval. In the Forester XT I don't use it as MMO lowers octane, very slightly but still, and it being a turbo and sensitive to octane, I don't use MMO in gas. I don't recommend using it in the oil! Never have.

Good for you. The engine has been designed to be efficient without sacrificing power.

Basia

Reply to
abjjkst

I was going to congratulate you but had just posted a similar message to someone else so thought I'd let someone different reply to you. :-)

Enjoy your car!

Patty

Reply to
Patty Winter

What is an "FB engine"? Is the 2.5 in a Forester different from that in a Legacy or an Outback? Which years of which engines have supposedly been affected by this problem? (I'm not willing to read through 255 web pages to find out.)

Patty

Reply to
Patty Winter

I completely forgot that there is a number of people who show up on this forum exclusively to be congratulated on their Subaru purchase.

My bad.

Basia

Reply to
abjjkst

Then read about the lawsuits, alleging excessive oil consumption.

FB engine is the new 2.5L engine, the one with the timing chain instead of belt. If you have a chain in your newer 2.5L engine it is a FB. They started producing them in 2011, fitting into Foresters, then other cars.

The problem is excessive oil consumption, but not necessarily oil being burnt as in an old car engine, but thin oil in the form of oil vapor being evacuated, sucked out of the engine. Subaru is not releasing the true cause.

Basia

Reply to
abjjkst

"Patty Winter" wrote

Thank you, Patty! And yes, it's a 2016, not a 2011.... We shall see how it fares. I have already been introduced to the service manager, and I told him I want to establish a good working relationship with him. I hope he will take care of things should problems like this arise. He told me to call him any time; "the technology in these things," he said, I'm sure referring to all the doo-dads and gizmos that may take months to learn to use.

Reply to
Howard Lester

Oh yeah, be prepared to deal with the doo-dads and gizmos! A year or so ago, I had a situation where all the warning lights came on on my instrument panel. It turned out to be a not-quite-closed gas cap! For some reason, Subaru decided that that warranted warning lights about the brakes and engine. I mentioned it to a friend and she said her car has a separate light just for the gas cap. That would be ideal, but lacking that, something less panicky would be good.

I ended up getting a free 3,000-mile service when I took the car in to find out what was wrong with it, but I'm still annoyed that the warning was overdesigned in the first place.

Patty

Reply to
Patty Winter

Good stuff, I had a 2000 Outback wagon with a 2.5L 4-banger. I've now got a 2008 Tribeca with 3.6L hexa-banger.

I had no problems with the 2.5L, it hasn't changed all that much, even the newer engines produce pretty much the same horsepower as the older engines, despite 15 years of improvement. I had it paired up with a

5-speed manual gearbox, and I felt it was quite peppy with the manual, but it may have been lethargic with an auto. But around the end, it had lost a lot of power, and was wheezing up steep hills and stuff, needed to use lower gears and turn off the AC to get up those hills, which it used to get up with no problem when it was new.

The new 3.6L 6-cyl is pretty peppy with an auto. The auto even has a sport mode, which really makes it peppy. I don't miss stirring gears at all, the auto seems to have a great understanding of the engine power maps, and can change gears quicker than I can. Of course, it uses much more fuel than the 2.5L. And the 2.5L itself was no gas-sipper.

Now, an interesting thing about Subaru flat engines, flat-4 or flat-6, is that that 180 degree horizontally opposed cylinder block is the ideal angle for the 4 cylinder, and one of the good angles for the 6 cylinder. In a 4-stroke engine, every cylinder has a power stroke, every 720 degrees of revolution. So in order to have a properly balanced engine, you need to time a power stroke in one cylinder with a compression stroke in another cylinder. When you do the math, in a 4 cylinder engine, 720/4 = 180 degrees, so that is the ideal angle for a 4. For a

6-cyl, 720/6 = 120 degrees, which has a harmonic at 60 degrees, and 180 degrees as well. So not the ideal for a 6-cyl, but no worse than any standard 60-degree V6.

Yousuf Khan

Reply to
Yousuf Khan

"Yousuf Khan" wrote

From what I've read over the years (I think only in Consumer Reports), the Legacy and such were reportedly not very desirable cars with regard to gas mileage, comfort(?), sound system, and, um, doo-dads and gizmos. That seemed to have all changed dramatically for the 2015 Legacy Limited (at least), and those changes brought it up to "Accord comfort and performance level" (and possibly beyond) for me -- plus AWD. Translation: the 2015 (and for me, the '16) is a very nice sedan. Test driving it, it felt a lot like my Accord, and just as quiet. The seats may take getting used to; I'm not sure how comfortable they are going to be for me. An tilt adjustment here or there might do the trick.

I would not have considered buying this car had the above improvements not been made. It does feel weird, though, changing brands after 33 years owning only Hondas.

Reply to
Howard Lester

Most people will not experience oil consumption issues. As I noted in an earlier post, my 14 Forester and 15 Outback have no consumption issues, as well as my son's /14 Forester. I believe that earlier models with the 2.5 engine, such as 2013 and 2012 models, had more consumption problems. I just haven't seen it with my cars.

Reply to
PAS

I took a trip last week where I had to drive 12 hours each way. My 2015 Outback was very comfortable, no complaints at all from me or the passengers. I got good gas mileage from the 2.5L engine, averaging almost 30mpg and I had a cargo carrier on the roof and was drving approximately 70mph on the highways.

I can't argue with the logic of buying Hondas. Their quality speaks for itself. I've never owned one but have driven in plenty of them. I am extremely happy with my Subarus, I think you'll be happy with yours.

Reply to
PAS

"PAS" wrote

Thanks for the good wishes. I'll be giving a "full report" at some point early this fall -- assuming all goes well and right with the transaction.

I've been very happy with my Hondas until this one. The sound system does mean a lot to me, and this one is awful -- a huge disappointment compared to the 2004 version. (The "purchase experience" was awful, too -- I should have walked out.)

There is one thing I will definitely miss on it, though, and that is the camera on the right-side mirror. The camera comes on when I signal a right turn, or when I push a button on the end of the headlight stalk. That camera view completely eliminates the right-side blind spot. I know the Subaru has a blind-spot indicator in the right-side mirror, but it won't at all be the same.

Reply to
Howard Lester

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