Re: Head Gaskets - repeat failure

The only reason I can come up with, and sometimes this can be an important one, is that the dealers may know about TSBs from Subaru or other manufacturers whereas your less costly local mechanic does not get these TSBs.

On the other hand, having been a technical rep for a car factory, (not Subaru) I have run across quite a few dealers who received their TSBs from us, properly put them into a binder in the service manager's office so they could show me they had them when I came visiting, but never made any effort to get copies to the mechanics. Don't ask me why? Fortuneatly, a lot did make sure mechs got them.

I chewed out quite a few managers about things like this, but sure enough when I checked after another 5 or 6 visits, the bad dealers where back to their old bad habits.

Let me give you a hint on this. Every dealership runs according to the way the management of that dealership thinks. In other words, in the hundreds of dealers I have visited, across the US, the way things run always comes down from the top. Internally, the way the sales, service, parts and new car prep departments (and sometimes their used car dept if they have one) work will all be the same although they each their ways of covering up their deceptive practices if they are a "bad" dealer.

So my hint is this; when deciding about getting your car serviced, look into the other departments. Listen in to someone buying a new car, are they getting the run back and forth to the "New Car Manager" with every deal offer? Are the people in parts knowledgable and helpful, if anyone is picking up a new car, does it really seem ready to be picked up, any plactic stuck to the seat bottom edges? Are the people who work there content about what they are doing or do you hear people all over the place talking about being screwed by the boss? Are the telephones ringing endlessly and are they being answered in a cheery and "happy you called us" manner?

Of course, recognize there are days when no-one can be too happy and days when everyone is just overwhelmed.

Also, are the mechanics paid flat rate, or hourly? Flat rate mechanics, the most popular type, get paid x dollars, whatever it says in the flat rate book, no matter how little or how long the repair takes. If the book says 4 hours, you pay for 4 hours, the mech gets paid for 4 hours, the dealer gets paid for 4 hours. Dealer and mech usually split the labor money 50/50, sometimes a little different ratio like 60/40.

Good mechanics often make 8 to 10 or 12 hours a day. Bad mechanics sometimes make 20 or more hours a day. (Guess why?) Really bad mechanics often make less than 8 hours a day. In the extremely rare situation, an older, well experienced very competent mech may work slowly and do excellent work making less than 8 hours a day.

Feel out the dealer or local mechanic before getting repairs. It may take more than 1 visit.

Also, good rebuilt parts from reputable companies like NAPA and such are just as good or better than factory parts in most cases. Much better than 25 years ago if you had bad experiences in the old past and remember the earlier years when "rebuilt" meant opened up, looked over, obvious bad parts replaced, and shipped out.

Rebuilders are now factories just like your car manufacturer and every part gets the same "back to new" treatment, with rare exception with some junk brands.

RedCrow

Reply to
<RedCrow
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Hi,

Overall I agree with what you had to say.

And I'm not going to argue with your statements concerning rebuilt parts for AMERICAN cars. I would venture a guess this is because the people doing "domestic" aftermarket remanufacturing are probably also working for the factories.

But my experience with foreign brands says the OEM replacement parts are ALMOST always superior to ANY aftermarket units. There are exceptions of course: for example, going to buy a rebuilt Bosch alternator for a German car from XYZ Auto Parts and opening the box to see a "Remanufactured by Bosch" sticker pretty much puts worry aside. This difference seems to bear a certain correlation to the overall sales figures of a marque. In other words, you're more likely to be ok on the aftermarket with a Toyota Camry part than a Subaru part, simply because Toyota probably sells as many Camries in a year as Subaru sells total units in five! My Subaru parts guy "jokes" that aftermarket parts for Subies are almost guaranteed not to fit. I'm not so sure he's joking.

Others' mileage may vary...

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

I think an overwhelming majority of independent mechs are working with AllData subscriptions where you get all TSB's just like a dealer.

I appreiate your insight, RedCrow.

I honestly don't understand why subaru of america does not take greater interest in the quality of their dealer's shops. In all other industries, service is recognized to be post-sales product support. My car may be past its warranty but its still a Subaru - quality service and customer support is necessary for the brand to maintain its reputation and resale values - which greatly influence the new sales.

The attutude "our dealers are independently operated businesses - we're not going to get in the middle of that..." is completely out of line with that.

Finally I share the last bit of my experience: I got the radiator and thermostat replaced at a cost of $550 at Milea Subaru in the Bronx (a 1hour train ride for me). The service guy tried to do me a favor and decided to grease all door hinges. He overlooked that in the hot weather here, the clearance between the spoiler on the hatch and the roof caused the edge of the spoiler to catch and bind, forced it open and broke off the front of the spoiler, denting the roof in the process.

When I realized what happened, I returned to the dealer this morning, and the service manager and tech first denied it had happened there, then pointed at an existing problem with the spoiler that had caused the binding. They reluctantly agreed to try to glue it back together, I declined and had them remove the broken part; then took off with the promise of gettting a replacement installed for free which I have yet to locate on a junk yard. Not sure if I want to go back there.

All in all I realize that mistakes happen and so do oversights (like missing the inoperable cooling fan), but after spending over a couple of thousand dollars and looking at additional damage I am not a happy customer.

FF

Reply to
Florian Feuser

I have very mixed feelings about "rebuilts" even from major suppliers. Maybe ten years ago our Volvo developed leaky fuel injectors. No problem - the local BAP ordered some up. Oops - wrong type... those were for the non-turbo. No wonder they worked so poorly. BAP ordered the right ones. The Python brand injectors looked like OEM and fit perfectly, but they still didn't work well at all. My poor turbo Volvo had a top speed of about 40 mph and refused to idle when cold. I eventually swallowed my pride and scheduled the beast with Volvo, where the mechanic checked the injectors first - "what has changed recently?" They flow-tested perfectly. He spent hundreds of dollars of my money doing sensible troubleshooting. Finally he put Volvo injectors in the car and it worked perfectly. Dunno why.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

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