Re: Why did I buy a used Subaru?

Late yesterday I spoke to my sales rep, who referred my call to the

>dealership's general manager this morning. The dealership is concerned >about my dissatisfaction and has asked for an opportunity to look over the >car once more, have their service manager drive it, etc., and then work >either towards another repair or to "get me into a comparable vehicle." >There is a long way to go between here and there, but at this point, it is >the best I can hope for. > >Again, it has been a bad experience, but I am so thankful that at least I am >working with a dealer, and that the dealer has been cooperative in >attempting to address my concerns.

I forgot to ask you to let us know how this works out. Please continue to let us know the finale.

It sounds like you presented a well researched (maybe we helped a little?) case that made the dealership listen! Good on ya mate!

But remember, it is not the best you can hope for if you feel you are being treated unfairly. There is the Dealer Owner who is the Boss of the General Manager (don't think he/she is too important or busy to listen to your problem) and there is still the possibility of a county or city Consumer Protection Department or Organization. Like I said, in my area, they decide what is fair in cases like this and the dealers do what they say or the county (here) just pulls their license to do business and fines them thousands of dollars. No Dearler wants this, and you will find the Dealer gets very cooperative very fast when these departments are called in.

I wouldn't bother looking up disclosure laws, unless you are a lawyer, since the Consumer Protection group will let you know what applies and what doesn't and already knows about any exceptions, etc. So you get a free lawyer, judge and jury. That is if there is a county or city department in your area. Check it out if needed, it can't hurt.

I collected a few posts from this thread below and commented them for future use when someone has "Subaru" problems. Just a summary for perusal;

>Someone wrote; >>I have learned the same lesson with my first Subaru: >>Never EVER buy a used Subaru. Usually someone milked one for good >>and dumped it onto someone else to pay for expensive repairs.

Sounds like he got burned, but not a good generalization.

>Rick wrote; >>Probably the most important question I ask when looking at a used car is >>"Why did the previous owner want to replace it?" >> >>With luck, these problems will soon be resolved and you'll become a >>happier Subie owner. >>

Good advice. This is my first question I ask about almost anything I buy, cars to tools, and rescuing dogs.

>"JCF" wrote; >> >>Thanks for the response. I certainly hope it gets better, because the car >>itself, when it works, is awesome. Stable, responsive, a pleasure to drive. >> >>In my case, the car I bought was billed by the dealer as "a trade that the >>previous Owner made to buy a new Outback. We usually don't sell high >>mileage cars, but this one was exceptionally clean....all the maintenance >>has been done." Buyer beware, I know.

Actually, I don't consider a Subie with 120k a high mileage car, on a personal basis, if it has been serviced and treated properly.

>"Vanguard" wrote; >>There is no difference between Subies and any other make. LOTS of >>consumers simply dispose of their vehicles after 2 to 3 years. >>Doesn't matter what is the mileage, low or high. Doesn't matter what >>is the condition, good or bad. They've been taught or somehow >>contrued that after a few years that they should get a brand new car >>because the old one will start having problems soon, whether or not it >>shows any problems at all when they decide to get rid of it. It's >>their form of preventative maintenance provided they can afford to >>lose all that depreciation in the car's value over the front-end >>heavily weighted reduction period. Also, many can afford their whim >>of getting a new car because they are simply bored with the old one, >>like folks that buy different clothes on each shopping spree.
***** Very Good thought above and even better Thought Below *****
>That's great for the rest of us .....they ...... eat up the most >>depreciation of the vehicle and do all the initial repairs and tweaks >>for new cars.
***********************************
>Carl wrote; >>....I think also, because folks tend to keep their Soobs >>around longer, even dealerships are so hungry to be able to offer used >>models they tend to keep cars that, if a similar condition used Ford >>showed up, they would send it to the wholesaler. ......

My Ford T-Bird just blew a head gasket. This is not just a Subie problem, but a "mixed metals = mixed expansion rates" problem. Even if the engine and heads are ALL aluminum, the metal aluminum expands and contracts too much when heated to be used as an engine material IMO (college major was engineering). But the next choice in metal in weight, machine ability, etc. is prohibitively expensive.

>"JCF" wrote; >>> Not to sound like Rain Man, but I am an excellent stick driver. >>Rick wrote; >>In that case, YOU will know if the clutch is slipping! Or are they just >>jerking your chain, figuring maybe they can hit you for $1500 or so to >>do a $500-$800 job and recoup some of their other "losses"?

Good Point! JCF should have noticed if it was THAT bad!

>"Dmitriy" wrote; >>The head gasket is a common issue with the 2.5L's around the year 2000. >>I would not buy ANY 2.5L Subaru without getting detailed records of >>previous service performed and throughly checking for coolant leaks at >>the head gasket underneath the engine.

Prior service will probably have little effect on HG failure, unless there is some procedure, probably in a factory notice, like retorqueing head bolts or similar. Prior REPAIRS would be a better gauge to check for past failures you might want to be aware off.

It would be better to also do pressure testing and maybe dye testing rather than looking for elusive drips which may be too small to be noticed at the early stages of HG failure. I have to admit my ignorance of the Subaru line as far as where exactly the head gaskets blow on these engines. Some brands or models start with a little compression loss into the oil chambers or cooling system which might be picked up by a leak down test if done carefully with the intention of looking for HG leaks rather than actually looking for ring and valve wear (if that makes sense the way I said it?).

Like I mentioned before, HGs usually do give warning, but usually go unnoticed by the owner and often by the regular service mechanics when doing normal maintenance.

> >>>The clutch is a wear part, it will wear out eventually no matter how >>>nice you are to it... with 120k miles on the car you have no idea how >>>old the clutch is... chances are it was slipping at the dealer already. >>

I agree you don't know how the clutch was treated before you bought the car. On the other hand, I have owned several Subies with 200 to 250 thousand miles on them and I have never replaced a clutch yet.

The Ole Factory Rep (not Subaru)

Reply to
<Rep
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I have never bought a new car in my life. I'm on my second used subaru, both bought with 90,000 miles on them. The first went to

220,000 before I traded it in for my 'new' subaru with 90,000. I did end up replacing a couple cv joints, bearings, and a clutch (although the clutch replacement was at 180,000 miles, not too bad), but other than that, just routine maintainence.

It should be a sign that the dealership was even willing to trade in my car with 220,000 miles on it, subarus can easily go to 300,000 miles if taken care of. That means that if I buy a car with 90,000 miles on it, I've still got over 100,000 miles to go, easily. That's more than most people drive their car before trading it in anyways.

I'll admit, the allure of a warranty is nice for a new car, but then again, how much immediate value do you lose when you drive it off the lot? Is it worth that much value loss? You can buy an extended warranty from a dealer on a used car for a lot less than the value lost when you drive a new one off the lot.

Just some food for thought with everyone screaming about how you should 'never buy a used car'. Let somebody else take the initial depreciation hit.

-nathan

Reply to
gearjunkie

I'm new here because my wife and I just bought our first Subaru--a used

1991 Legacy w/118k miles. My last car was a 1980 Ford Fiesta which I really enjoyed driving but the heater blower motor went out and I couldn't find a replacement. My "other car" is a 1991 Honda Goldwing motorcycle with about 65k miles on it and they can often run up to 150k-300k miles without major repairs, but because of its age, parts may become difficult to find.

The economic model seems interesting to me that for some of us at this end of the consumption cycle, vehicles are now able to last much longer than availability of parts.

So far, I'm impressed with the 1991 engineering of the Subaru and probably in 15 years, I'll be impressed with the enineering of today's cars when I buy one used. Okay I'm behind the times, but every vehicle rolling off the assembly line is behind the current engineering that is happening for future vehicles. Nevertheless, I'm grateful to those who buy new vehicles and maintain them well.

--Dale

Reply to
Dale

Reply to
Dmitriy

of the consumption cycle, vehicles are now able to last much

Hi,

Maybe I've just been lucky, but it seems parts availability for "older" models has gotten better in the last 10 yrs or so. Of course a lot of that has to do with how popular the car was/is when new and as a used model.

I have a '90 Subie, an '88 Toyota truck and a '92 Camry. Parts for all three are fairly readily available at the dealers. Aftermarket parts for the Toyotas are also pretty much "everywhere." My experiences w/ aftermarket parts for the Subie haven't been all that favorable, so I just go to the dealer for most items.

The difference I see w/ the Subie is that the parts network is nowhere nearly as well developed as some others (I order a Subie part, and it will come in 3-21 business days later. I order a Toyota part, and it will be there the next business day. Almost without fail.) BUT, Toyota probably also sold as many of either of those vehicles in a single year in the US alone as Subaru sold of ALL their models worldwide in a year. So they should be able to afford a better distribution network! Plus I'm on the West Coast, so historically I've been close to the point of entry for Japanese parts. I wonder if US production has affected parts sourcing in a positive fashion?

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Riding my Honda Goldwing motorcycle (which is a pretty common motorcycle) through Wyoming, the rear tire blew out and the dealer didn't have one in stock. Fortunately an independent mechanic had one. With my Ford Fiesta, I wouldn't take it out of town because there were no local sources for most parts. The Fiesta, however, was originally considered to be disposable like paper towels compared to cloth towels so people didn't expect them to last 26-plus years. Perhaps the perception of how long specific cars might last determines whether aftermarket companies will invest in making parts and the consequent availability of parts determines how long the cars will last.

--Dale

Reply to
Dale

Your "Ford" Fiesta was not a "Ford" at all....but rather a "Kia"....... Kia built these for Ford....now that you know it was a Kia...this might explain a lot.

Reply to
<stephandlulu

Kia made the Fiesta in Europe? I traced the manufacturer of the heater blower motor that I needed to a town in France.

--Dale

Reply to
Dale

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