It is unsafe to drive off in certain weather conditions before things warm up a bit, scraping the windows only helps for a minute in some situations. When it is very cold and the humidity is right your breath will fog the inside and sometimes freeze inside the windows. I have my vehicle on a timer and any time it is -10F or colder the 2 block heaters and battery heater come on 1 hour before I head to work. If weather conditions warrant I also remote start the car 2 minutes before I leave. I suppose some might think it lazy to not just wade thru the snow and then come in, take my shoes off, blow dry my now fogged up glasses, put shoes (and coat) back on again and head back out....I would be an idiot if I didn't use the simple inexpensive conveniences at my disposal. TG
1) I don't do this every hour (or 2.. or 4) during a cold winters night. Each time you start the cold engine, wear is taking place. If you start the engine and then let it idle for 5 minutes then shut if off, that's unecessary wear. If it's that cold outside, the engine will quickly cool off to outside temp within 30-45 minutes. So, not much is accomplished. (I'm not even going to mention the drain on the battery)
2) During the coldest part (usually at night) i'm at home and used a block heater only. When I was at work (and didn't have access to an electrical outlet) i used the "start and let it warm at idle for a few" technique.
Hate to keep on about this, but their IS a difference. A remote starter can ONLY start a car that's cold (whatever the outside temp is) and warm it up. The starting of a cold engine means that for the first few minutes cold oil is (trying) to circulate to the valves and other parts of the engine. As oil is trying to pump around the engine, metal to metal contact is taking place and that produces wear.
A block heater keeps the coolant warm (and in turn the oil) so when you start the engine on a cold day, warm coolant (and therefore some what warmer oil) is circulating in the engine. In my *tests* I would see the block heater keeps the coolant around 55 degrees F during the coldest part of winter. I would rather have 55 degree oil and coolant in my engine at startup than outside temperature coolant/oil.
I'm sorry to say this, but the benefit of a remote start is ONLY for the driver. The car does not benefit. By far the bigest enemy of a engine is wear. And the biggest cause of wear is metal-to-metal contact.
Hi, Driving, Hmmm... It should read driving as soon as you can after starting/idling. In extreme cold, can't even move the stick right after starting. Ever lived in arctic or sub-arctic world? North of us(I am in Alberta) in the sub arctic zone, they never turn off car once it starts in the morning. Ever saw brake line freezing? Tony
By all means. The above was intended as no more than a simple statement of fact; ie 'It has always been regarded as bad practice'. When I used to use a car early every morning in winter whilst leaving it parked outside, I always let it idle for a couple of minutes while I scraped the ice.
Once you've started a modern car you should never turn it off before it is fully warmed up anyway. The warm-up cycle is computer controlled. If it's not completed to the satisfaction of the computer it may well not allow the car to start again for several minutes.
Hi, Where I live, if car is parked outside for the night in the winter, often times it won't start because car is TOO cold inside/ouside. If it was started and warmed up once in the night, it'll start in the morning even if the car cooled off after shutting off. How cold can it get here? It can get cold enough to see ice slush inside battery. Is it cold enough for you or did you ever experience cold weather like we have. Name of the game for us in winter is to make sure car starts in the morning to go to work. Who cares about wear and tear? Any thing we need and use always wear out needing replacement. You sound like a guy trying to hang onto a car for the rest of your life or treat like no. 1 asset you have. To me car is a neccessary evil which I'd be glad if I could do without it. Further up North from where I live, just running the engine all day is not enough, they tie down pick up trucks on a jig like merry go round to keep them in motion in low gear until they need to drive one. Tony
Hi, Warm up cycle is computer controlled? How? What does ECU do for warming up the car? My definition of warmed up car is one I can drive off without any hesitation or jerkiness, or difficulty with shifting gears. Simply, warmed up car is drivable normally. Been driving ~50 years, I never encountered any unusual problem with cold weather. Today's computer controlled car needs less idle(warm up) time compared to old carb. engine cars for obvious reason. Tony
Hi, What is the temp. in your coldest part of winter? Sounds like you value your car more than yourself? I don't. I value myself more than my car. Benefit to me is MORE important than benefit to any car. Tony
Point is, the car was purchased to serve me. I didn't buy the car to serve it. Here in Montreal the temperatures go down to around -40 with the wind-chill factor, so I'm happy to have the remote starter to let my baby run for 10 or 15 minutes before getting inside. Not everyone has access to an outlet for either a battery blanket or block heater! When we've had freezing rain, letting her run for 15-minutes melts all the ice, or at least makes it soft enough for me to wipe off with my hand rather than damage the trimming, metal or glass with the scraper....which does happen. I've set mine to come on when it goes below -15. I don't buy the 'unnecessary wear' argument'. Your point was well made, Tony.
Sorry Dan, think we got some crossed wires. My actual "your wrong" statement was ment for an earlier post. My bad....
Everyone treats their cars differently. In my case, I try to make it last a long time and try to do what's best to keep it running in top shape. Other treat their cars less nice. Nothing wrong with that. They bought the car so they can do whatever they want. My only intention is to point out the differences between a remote starter and a block heater. They each have pros and cons. A well informed car owner needs to know each to make the best decision for them.
I think all will now agree that we have throughly covered this issue and have left no stone unturned. ;-)
Sounds like a great strategy when an outlet is not available.
My truck (ex-military) has what they call the arctic package. It has a handheld gas-powered turbine (picture a big leaf blower) which slides into a fitting under the front bumper. From this fitting, pipes carry the hot exhaust from the heater around the engine and the battery box. Once the engine has been warmed up, it can be started. The heater can then be removed and a nozzle is fitted over the end and the jet of hot exhaust can be used to de-ice the vehicle. The heater then slides into a fitting where its exhaust drives a fan that pulls cold air over its exhaust pipes and into the rear compartment for heating. It's pretty cool, but I've never actually used it. The coldest I've ever started the engine was about 5F and I was glad to have a 24V system.
I remember one episode of Car Talk that discussed this. The caller's current approach was to leave a space heater sitting on the back seat with an extension cord running to the house. 30 minutes before he left for work he would plug in the heater. By the time he left the interior was warm and the glass was clear. His question was whether or not he should add an engine block heater. Click and Clack were of the opinion that based on where he lived (somewhere not terribly cold) that the car wouldn't suffer without one and his real goal was his comfort, not that of the car. I think in that case that if it were me, I would add the engine block heater since he's already having to mess with an electrical cord and obviously has the spot to plug one in.
I'd also add that my remote comes in handy when it's +40-degrees C with the humidex. Before I turn the car off, I leave the A/C & fan dial mid-range and let her run for about 5-minutes before getting inside. I'll admit, however, that if we here in Montreal didn't get alot of freezing rain & sleet accumulate on the windows (I've seen freezing rain accumulate almost half an inch thick) I'd opt for the block heater & battery blanket. Nonetheless, if the remote doesn't waer her out, the shitty roads and road-salt here in Montreal will.
Phil M> > Sorry Dan, think we got some crossed wires. My actual "your wrong"
Hi, Dan How about -30F without wind chill factor? 5F is short sleeve weather for us.(little bragging, LOL) Our life with automobiles got lot easier since the day of electronics control and fuel injection. Much less starting problem in the winter.
Everything. In particular, it controls the fuel flow - taking over the job which used to be done by a manual choke and later by an automatic choke. The ECU optimises fuel flow to minimise emissions, which are at their worst when the engine is cold.
Fine. You are welcome to use any definition you like. It won't make any difference to the ECU, which will decide when your engine is warmed up to the point where it is working at normal efficiency.
Interesting. That appears to be the situation, yes.....probably because the ECU does such a good job of maintaining driveability during warm up. Modern, lightweight engines are, of course, designed to run much hotter than the old cast iron lumps we used to use.
The ECU shutting down a car which has been only partially warmed up and not allowing it to restart for half and hour or so may not be common, but it is a well documented problem.
Hi, ECU's does not know whether you started the car remotely to warm up or whatever, It's job is to make engine run for the condition. If it was cold then it'll deliver more fuel like old choke did, etc. ECU has no way of knowing this is warm up cycle, so I am doing this. Just it is doing it's job as programmed for the situation. I neve saw anywhere in the ECU firmware listing, routine for warm up. There is routine for idle which has a sub-routine for variuous engine state; cold, hot, humid, high altitude, low altitude, fuel Octane, etc. Show me warm up routine in the listing. Tony
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.