special burping gear?

is there any special gear out there to burp a radiator, i remember reading a post where a guy said his mechanic hooked up the brake bleeding pump to his radiator. do u guys know of any special radiator bleeding gear that can take the heartache out of bleeding the air out of this forester coolant? thanks

Reply to
glasceus
Loading thread data ...

Hi,

I use a coffee pot.

Here's how it works:

Put on a pot of coffee. While it's brewing, fill the radiator if necessary (i.e, if you've just drained it), leaving the radiator cap off, or just take the radiator cap off if it's already full. Start the engine. The car should be level, or pointed slightly uphill to ensure the filler neck of the radiator's the highest point in the cooling system. Some put it on ramps, though I've not achieved any better results on ramps than w/ wheels on ground. While engine warms up, check coffee. It should be about ready.

Turn heater to full on ("Hi") position, rev engine to maybe 1500-2000 rpm for a minute or so. Let it idle back down while getting a cup of coffee. Turn off engine and let cool while enjoying the coffee. When the cup's empty, refill it or go read the paper or do something while the engine cools more. If coolant has splashed out on the ground, this is a good time to hose it down so your dog or cat doesn't come out and take a big slurp of it. If your neighborhood environmentalist starts having a fit about coolant on the ground, it's a good time to hose him down, too. (Get him good: you want to make it worth your while in case he files an assault charge on you!)

Once the engine's relatively cooled off, the coolant level in the radiator MAY have dropped some. Top off as necessary and start the engine. While it idles and warms up, get another cup of coffee. When the engine's up to normal temp again, rev it to 2500-3000 rpm for a few seconds, let it idle down, repeat a coupla times. You'll probably have a fair amount of splash on the ground. While the engine idles a couple more minutes, hose down any additional splashed coolant. If your neighborhood environmentalist type is still having a fit, hose him down a second time. Shut the engine off, let it cool again, enjoy the rest of that cup of coffee and find something else to do for a while.

When the engine's relatively cool again, check and top off the coolant as required, then repeat the above procedure. After doing this, shut the engine off and let sit until really cool. The coolant will probably be low in the radiator, so fill it until it's about an inch below the filler neck. If you don't have that inch of free space, a kitchen baster can be used to siphon some coolant off into the overflow tank. Put the cap on. Fill the overflow reservoir a bit over the "max" mark--about the same amount the radiator is underfilled.

Go have another cup of coffee, shut off the coffee pot if it's still on, then go for a short ride. Keep the heater on "Hi" (note that many Subies have a constant flow heating system, so coolant flows even when the heater's off, but putting it on "Hi" ensures both good flow and I've been told the bit of cooling in the heater core MAY help relieve bubbles. That sounds far fetched to me, though!) Come back, let the car sit and cool completely, and check the overflow reservoir. Top off as necessary. Check it again daily for three or four days, topping off as required.

While some of this probably sounds facetious, the point of the drill is to NOT get in a hurry, AND, by not doing this operation in haste, to allow any trapped air to actually move out of the engine/heater areas INTO the radiator. Bubbles can be trapped easily if the system is simply filled and capped right away. They HAVE to have a place to go and you WILL generally make some kind of a mess getting them all out. You'll be able to get most of 'em out while you've got the radiator cap off, and leaving an air space in the radiator will help the rest escape (those greybeards here who remember "pre-overflow reservoir" systems will recall they usually had a couple of inches of "free" space in the top of the radiator for expansion, and also had relatively few trapped air problems compared to today's cars.)

Give these methods a try, and I think you'll find properly filling your cooling system's neither magical nor difficult. But it does sometimes take a while. Hope you enjoy your coffee!

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Pretty good advice. It isn't widely appreciated that uncontaminated glycol antifreeze, while toxic to us vertebrates because it goes through a methanol phase when we metabolize it, is very biodegradable. To the wee critters it is like any other carbohydrate... who knows, maybe it is less toxic than a twinkie ;-)

When aircraft need to have their wings de-iced before takeoff, they are hosed down with glycol. As long as we keep pets and children out of the stuff there is no problem. I think it's ironic that the toxicity profile is similar to acetominophen (Tylenol); non-toxic in small amounts but destructive to a vital organ (kidneys for ethylene glycol, liver for acetominophen) as the dose passes a threshold.

The US EPA does have an issue with used antifreeze. They want it tested for heavy metals (primarily lead) that may have leached into it during use. Dunno about heater cores, but most OEM radiators in the last decade or two have been aluminum, so solder exposure is small.

Mike

Reply to
Michael Pardee

Good going Rick: I see at least two of use do it correctly and it works every time. I especially if your advise to NOT get in a hurry. ed

Reply to
Edward Hayes

On an episode of "American Hotrod", they connected a vacuum pump to the radiator cap to get an air bubble out of the cooling system.

I've never seen the adapters or fittings to do such a thing, but I suspect it would work.

For non-US readers, "American Hotrod" is a television show that documents the building of custom hotrods, along with the antics and somewhat contrived social interactions of the mechanics, management and customers.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

Jim Stewart wrote: (clip) I've never seen the adapters or fittings to do such a thing, but I suspect it would work. (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If there are air bubbles in the system which can follow an upward path to the radiator filler, they will rise on their own. Pulling a vacuum will make the bubbles larger, so they will rise faster. If there is air trapped in a loop somewhere, so that they have to go down before they can go up and out, the vacuum will make them larger, but they won't travel out. That's why you have to run the engine with the heater on.

Reply to
l.lichtman

Except for the coolant exchanger, most of these systems run on shop air pressure to create the vacuum.

I don't think this is much of an issue with the turbo models. Most have the highest cooling system spot right at the high coolant tank.

Reply to
y_p_w

rick, i cannot tell u how much i appreciate those instructions. i printed out your instructions and am gonna devote an entire day to getting it done. i already went to walmart and bought a ramp. i'm gonna use all day friday to do the job. i'll post results on saturday. thank u so much man, those are some great instructions... just one question: do u remove the bleeder screw from the radiator or u just leave it in. which is better, with it in our out? thanks again man

Reply to
glasceus

Hi,

I haven't worked on any cars that have the bleeder screw, but it's been discussed here several times, so hopefully someone who's worked on one will jump in here!

IIRC, you should leave the bleeder open while doing the actual fill, then leave it open when you first start the engine. I'd probably leave it open during the first "cycle" of warm up and "burping," then close it for subsequent cycles, but someone will correct me if that's not the best way.

Good luck!

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Hi,

Nice tool, though I think it's a $200 solution to a $2 problem at the home level... (different in a shop, of course!)

One caveat about using these vacuum devices: like so many tools, the operator's skill and attention can define the final result.

Example: I've got a '92 V-6 Camry whose previous owner had it "flushed and filled" by the Toyota dealer annually since it was new. My experience with Toyotas is limited (two of their trucks, the one car), but so far, my experiences indicate Totota engines are BAD for holding air (this V-6 actually has a second radiator cap on the engine to help bleed it) and the guys who write the Toyota owners manuals have no clue as to actual fluid capacities, so the first time I drained the system, I carefully measured the amount of coolant I took out.

I then refilled with that same amount, and the system appeared "dry." By the time it was full, I'd added nearly an entire quart of coolant over what was in there (that was BEFORE I'd even fired up the engine and lost any to splashing.) So even though the system had been vacuum filled by the dealer, there were still some SERIOUS air pockets in there!

So I'm not sure these devices are all they're cracked up to be if not used with care. Since I'm not doing this for a living, I prefer a good cup of coffee... ;)

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

BTW - I was wrong about the big coolant exchanger on rollers. Even that thing runs on shop air.

Well - I once saw a Subaru TSB recommending the use of one of these devices. Snap-On was specifically mentioned as a source, and I think Mac Tools. The same TSB also had a curve of coolant concentration. I think they recommended at least a concentration of 37%. 40% should be fine for most people who don't go into subzero temps, and it should actually cool better in high temps.

Reply to
y_p_w

i tried your way rick, but it didnt work at all. still air in the system. so i modified your method. instead of reving the engine. i just put in on ramps and let it idle. the air bubbles slowly came up, then to continue forcing them up i pounded on the top of the radiated with my fist. a lot of bubbles came out. i shut the engine off as soon as the fan activated to stop the coolant level from falling. after i turn it off i continueto pound on the radiator to get more bubbles out. after that i put the cap back on, let it cool down , take the cap back off and top again. repeat that procedure another time then turn the engine off until very cold. i think i got most of the air out because i cant hear any water noises anymore. this procedure took up all day.

now that the water noises are gone i hear a squeeking noise coming from the rear of the car when i drive slow. any ideas? here we go again.

98 forester S
Reply to
glasceus

Hi,

Sorry to hear things didn't work out as I described, but I do see some things that might be problematic with how you "modified" my procedure (sorry if I wasn't clear on them):

When did you take off and put on the cap? It should have been removed before starting any of the procedure, and should remain off until the end, just before you go for your test ride.

And go ahead and let the cooling fan go on. When the coolant level in the radiator drops, it allows more air/bubbles to move out of the system. Again, the cap should NOT be installed at this time.

When you revved the engine, was the cap off? If not, trapped bubbles have no where to go and can stay in there for a long time. With the cap off, you're duplicating to a small degree the vacuum pump idea: coolant is being "pressurized" by heat and water pump movement, and it will try to reach the point of lower pressure, the radiator filler neck, if it can.

The squeaking noise? Perhaps it's the car's way of saying "please don't beat on my radiator any more." Otherwise I've got nothing.

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Some Imprezas have weak/poorly installed rear wheel bearings(well know problem - replace with Legacy style bearings). But it could just be a bushing or something too.

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

looks like i spoke too soon, the water noises are back now. sounds like a river behind the dash. but good thing is i got my title and registration today and i am gonna post the car for sale this weekend.

its a pity because its a beautiful car inside and out. i'm definitely gonna miss it. but no car is worth this much stress. i have more important things to worry about

Reply to
glasceus

looks like i spoke too soon, the water noises are back now. sounds like a river behind the dash. but good thing is i got my title and registration today and i am gonna post the car for sale this weekend.

its a pity because its a beautiful car inside and out. i'm definitely gonna miss it. but no car is worth this much stress. i have more important things to worry about

Reply to
glasceus

The simplest and most useful thing I've found so far is about $20 at most NAPA car parts stores. It's labeled a "No-spill funnel", and is a system that replaces the radiator cap with a nozzle, into which you insert a (supplied) funnel. Fill the funnel 1/3 full, start the car, let it idle with the heat on, do whatever you want to hoses and such to get the bubbles out, or just go have a cup of coffee or whatever. While the coolant is expanding and contracting and such, it just moves up and down in the funnel, instead of splashing everywhere. After a while, if the funnel is empty, add some more coolant. When the level of the coolant in the funnel hasn't changed in a while, give the upper hose a squeeze to create a little space, put the (supplied) long-handled stopper in the funnel, release the hose, remove the funnel from the nozzle, empty it into the overflow tank, and put the normal cap back on the radiator.

Very easy, and no more coolant on the ground.

Reply to
sewiv

hmm. interesting sewiv, thats some good stuff. i did a search online and found a Lisle Spill-Free Funnel which only costs 20 bucks but makes bleeding the radiator super easy, all u have to do is hook it up then run the engine for as long as u need to get the bubbles out. sweet. i called napa but they dont carry it. gonna try and find one this weekend. that way i can just put the car on ramps, hook it up, turn on the engine, walk away for a couple hours to give all the bubbles time to get out. this is the last straw though. thanks man. really good stuff!!!

Reply to
glasceus

hey sewiv, do u know of any local brand name shops that sell this funnel? thanks

Reply to
glasceus

I think it's time to have your car's headgaskets tested. If you had no 'water noises' and they came back, those gasses came from somewhere - likely a combustion chamber or 2.

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.