Subaru says "screw the environment" (NRDC)

Petey, WHERE is somewhere else? If you haven't noticed, all auto manufacturers do this, and have done this for a long time. It just so happens, that the evolution of the outback has taken it in a direction that makes more sense to classify it as a truck. That evolution is based on market demand. I'm sure Subaru will gain more new customers by what it is able to offer than it will lose.

Stu

I can only speak for myself here... I'm on my way to trade in my Subaru Outback AWD for a Toyota Previa All-Trac (honestly). This has been a long time coming... certainly not the result of this article. However, the article certainly confirms to me that it's a right decision to leave Subaru... never to return.

Good-buy folks.

-- Wind Mountain Pete

It *was* interesting. Just asinine.

FWIW, your new ride will be more than 4000 lbs and get 17/20 mpg. Don't pretend environmental concerns are even remotely related to your choice.

Stu

What? And not a bicycle? You earth hater. If you really loved the earth, you would've dismantled and recycled that gas guzzling Subaru to prevent someone else from driving it, pumping toxins into the air and causing global warming. You've got blood on your hands fella.

Might have been, if it hadn't been initially promulgated under an inflammatory and/or polarizing subject line, which produced the expected reaction. But nowhere have I seen a statement from Subaru that says "screw the environment." That came from someone with an agenda. Which immediately makes it suspect in some people's minds, and constitutes "fightin' words" in others'. Remember, this is a case of "it's not WHAT you say but HOW you say it."

Rick

Let's see, which vehicle has AWD/4WD and off-road capability AND gets better gas mileage than the Outback series of cars? I gues NRDC would prefer prospective Outback customers to buy Explorers.

CW

"Vast majority" is so far from the truth. Just because the WRX is an enthusiast's car doesn't mean most owners modify their cars. That's like saying the "vast majority" of Civic owners mod their cars too just because modded civics are so plentiful and visible.

If your statement is true "Most Subaru owners in my area .......Environmental issues here are #1" how could they justify buying a Subaru at all? No Subaru produced today is very low on emissions nor do they have very good fuel economy...especially the 2.5L...I imagine anyone with the #1 priority being the environment (which is stupid) would drive a Metro or something. TG

Snowcatcher wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@io.com (Brent Burton) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@io.com: | > As an example, the US Subaru WRX not only has 3 catalytic | > converters, but is also LEV. All WRXs sold in the US meet the more | > stringent California emissions limits, too. Subaru obviously | > does care about emissions, but the US emission laws need work. | | BWAH....you're using a WRX as an example??? The vast majority of people | buying these MOD them to death burying their warranties in the process.

"Vast majority?" I highly doubt that, at least with respect to emissions. There is a difference between what an individual does (or not) to their car and how the car is provided by the manufacturer.

And anyway, one of the most popular mods is the cat-back exhaust with coffee can muffler. But that's also "cat-back", so for many modders, the original cats are retained.

CW wrote in news:lbqd00hfor0b1ps168di8i3mlstqb5fpas@

4ax.com:

That's a pisspoor example. The numbers of Civics on the road far far outnumber the number of WRX's. Also the percentage of each that is modded is heavily in favor of WRX's/STi's.

Compare how many Honda enthusiast websites there are for people who like to mod, whether it be discussion sites like NASIOC for subaru or vendors who sell parts. The introduction of the WRX/STi into the US market has created a ton of jobs in manufacturing parts exclusively for modding where 2.5RS parts would not work.

This doesn't even take into account all those who owned modded civics who couldn't wait to get their hands on the WRX/STi when it came over here, increasing the percentage who mod them even more.

snipped-for-privacy@io.com (Brent Burton) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@io.com:

You're right. But its the same thing as certain gun manufacturers who make millions off of easily modified weapons that can be turned fully automatic by a newbie. They(Subaru) know there's a market for modifiying this vehicle and therefore brought it over here knowing the majority will do so.

Actually Stu, I'm quite happy with the MPG's on this Previa minivan. However, this new ride is only a temporary fix until Toyota comes out with this:

Toyota is certainly moving in the right direction, unlike Subaru.

-- Wind Mountain Pete

Oh boy! Where do I get these easily modified weapons? I've always wanted an full auto arsenal. And where do I buy the full auto sears?

Accroding to this URL

earlier on this NG Subaru seem to have made a much better choicepropulsion system wise. First of all their electric motor according to thearticle is not as puny as the motorson the competitors offerings. Second of all the article states that theSubaru engine combo iscompact. Meaning that the cars that will be outfitted with it won't have thenautical turning radius of your toyota. People at Subaru seem to be smart enough to realize that if they can sell the hybrid concept in a performance car market first the rest of the market will eventually follow and the technology will trickle down into mom&pop grocery haulers. Looks like SVX successor is coming after all.

There is no telling of how Toyota yet another experiment at AWD would fare. So far all Subaru competitors have been coming up with one P.O.S. AWD system after another. I find it quite insulting when a vendor is peddling a permanent 4wd system that engages with a 3-4 second delay (RAV4).

My (limited) experience with Toyotas so far was less than stellar. Both Corolla and Camry handle relatively poorly (relative to a Sub, I drove both). Sienna is based on Camry chassis, I believe. Therefore I expect your new dream ride that will probably inherit some parts from Sienna to handle poorly also. Maybe Celica handles well. For the price of base Impreza TS is should. Good luck finding a 4 door or a station version of Celica :-)

Maybe you don't care that 4/5 door Toyotas handle almost like the motor boats from Detroit, but I suspect quite a few people like to have cars that are fun to drive.

You see, because Toyota built an image of making reliable cars they have absolutely no incentive to make all of their models fun to operate.

Therefore in my book the score is this: Subaru: 1 Toyota: 0

[Insulting remarks about the average IQ of "Toyota every day" drivers are reluctantly removed]

Wanna reference that?

Rick

More BS. The market developed following the release of the vehicle. Moreover, the WRX already IS a modified version of the Impreza. You get a spoiler, sport steering wheel, sport seats, sport pedals, etc. Most of the WRX's I see on the street look bone stock. Sure, they could be "sleepers" but all of them???

CW

CW wrote in news:b0ug00lpfr6v3ekcohbnqe1jdnh22pedi7@

4ax.com:

If you want BS, check your corral. Who drives WRX's? Soccer mom's? No. Families? No. Its 35-60 year old's who have rallyed most of their lives and drooled over EVO's and Impreza STi's on their one-week vacations to European rallies while they drove modified base Impreza's or other makes entirely in US rallies. Besides them, its 18-35 year old guy's who had no clue about rallies but drooled over PS2's Gran Turismo and learned about modding(in primitive ways) and driving these vehicles through that. Go to your local Subaru and Mitsubishi dealers and ask how many of these age groups began coming in and calling them all day long wondering when the WRX /STi and EVO were hitting their showrooms and then once they hit began buying them up or drooling over them if they couldn't afford one.

I don't know where you live, but seeing "mostly" bone stock WRX's and STi's is an anomally in this country right now. Are you stopping and checking under their hoods to make sure its all stock?

And have i said 100% in any of my posts? No, so stop responding if all you've got to say is not 100% of them are modded because that's obviously not the case, and i obviously haven't attempted to say that.

Hmmmmm, just trying to imagine where I'm gonna put my windsurfing board and a few sails, as well as my business equipment & supplies in this B9SC Roadster concept car.

Any ideas?

John > Accroding to this URL