Toyo-ru? Suba-ris?

Hi,

Found this interesting:

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Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright
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How odd. I guess the R1 and R2 are not popular? Or, perhaps they can't be easily brought to the correct standards for the European market?

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

Hi,

My take is, unlike the Americans who are still trying to figure out how to burn up oil as fast as possible (all the while griping about rising prices!), the Europeans are getting quite serious about fuel economy. I gathered from the way I read the article that Subaru can't hang with its current models, while Toyota can. You noticed it appears Nissan's teaming up w/ Suzuki, too (why not Renault?)

Anyway, some other surfing led to a note that 37% of European auto sales are now diesels. Toyota turns in some rather fantastic fuel economy w/ many of their European diesels. Their Yaris comes in as good as or better than any hybrids here, and even a 7 passenger Land Cruiser hits

29 mpg! (Compared to what, 14-16 on gas in the US?) Maybe this is another way for Subaru to get a good deal on some diesel technology?

Lots of theories could pop up, no?

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

I don't understand why they want to rebrand and sell the loser's car? Fortunately California buyers know better and are buying Fit in droves. I rarely see Yaris. I hope it stays this way.

Reply to
Body Roll

Hi,

"Loser?" What's your definition?

I spend up to 150 mi/day on SoCal freeways. So far, I've seen ONE Fit out there. Where are these "droves?"

Methinks you're hung up in the "Ford-Chevy" thing of years past, just inserting the current top two. Honda makes good cars. Toyota makes good cars. It's a matter of preference at the consumer level.

At the manufacturing level, I'm sure Subaru looked at the "best deal" for them. Let's face it, much as most of us like our Subies, FHI isn't a car mfr of large enough size or status to tell anybody "how it's gonna be," and Toyota, on track to be the largest auto mfr in the world, who IS, has benefited in the past from joint ventures (think NUMMI w/ General Motors!) and appears to continue in that vein. Remember, they purchased a chunk of GM's former interest in FHI recently, and also moved into the Isuzu side of Subaru's Indiana plant for extra capacity to build Camries. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" ring any bells?

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Hmm, lets's see Honda Fit 228 points and 1st place finish, Toyolet Yaris 185 points and 4th place finish behind kia rio and nissan versa.

No argument here. Plants are expensive to build. R&D is expensive. What is not?

Reply to
Body Roll

Hi,

Who gave these points? Sounds like a magazine. Don't know about the rest of you, but I learned a LONG time ago NEVER judge a car by a magazine rating. Or was it the likes of J.D. Powers? Again, these survey companies can be publishing rather sketchy info, based on WHO bothered to respond. I, personally, have never bothered answering their questionnaires. As a result, some BAD cars got no additional input from me, but then, neither did some GOOD ones. I'm sure I'm in company with millions of other buyers.

Both cars in question, the Fit and Yaris, are virtually brand new. It will take a coupla years to shake 'em out and see how they stack up then...

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright

Silly me. Never proofreading my posts. That was Car and Driver. Fit was the only car with a decent standard gearbox in comparo. Suspension in Yaris is much softer according to C&D. Maybe it come useful to the Ford and GM employees who are prematurely retiring? Who knows. I expect that Fit would fare better with the younger crowd though.

Who is JD Power? Sounds like a rap band.

Reply to
Body Roll

In many countries the value is much higher. Portugal and France (two that I know about) have passed 50%. And that is an average of the whole market, influenced by the smaller cars where the diesel advantage is not very big and where gasoline engines are still being sold.

I have read that in cars like Toyota Corollas and bigger ones the Diesel percentage can be 90%. Note that part of the reason for this choice is performance. The turbo diesels are getting around 85 HP/litre while many naturally-aspirated gasoline engines have less than that (and increasing displacement is an expensive option in some countries because of taxes).

Of course there are turbo gasoline engines, but those have very high consumption (a turbo gasoline must have lower compression ratio = less efficiency). There is now a new technology, turbo gasoline engines with direct injection (VW, BMW/Peugeot), but the results might not be good enough to invert the tendency.

Subaru will have a boxer diesel (next year, I think). Most of the technology (injectors, pumps, ECUs, etc) can be bought from Bosch and other suppliers. I don't know if there are Japanese suppliers with the same level of technology (in Japan diesel engines are still not used much).

Reply to
Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro

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