1981 Fairmont wont start in minus 30 degree weather.

Right now it's flooded. If possible pull as many plugs as you can, dry them off (I use a propane torch - its amazing how much fuel can be on a plug), crank the engine over with the plugs out (make sure the wires are grounded, some ignitions might be damaged otherwise) to clean out the cylinders. If the car is carburated (I would imagine an 81 is) hold the choke wide open with a screwdriver or something while cranking. Before pulling the plugs, fully charge the battery, if possible get it someplace warm overnight. Reinstall plugs and battery, give it a shot of starting fluid down the carb, crank it up. The problem is that if its really flooded bad, the fuel will wash the oil off the cylinder walls, making it harder to crank. If its REALLY flooded, there will be fuel in the crankcase oil. This could be bad. as in booom. Change the oil at the first opportunity. tad

I suspect one of two things (or a combination of both) - an '81 is getting up there in years and you need to make sure that you're able to get full power to the starter... check condition of battery cables, ground straps, all connections etc. Finally -30F is pretty darn cold for any car, you may want to consider switching to a synthetic oil which will allow it to spin faster when it's cold out.

good luck,

nate

holy smokes, 30 below! I thought 120 was tough, but I'd rather sweat than freeze.

Sounds like you have a problem with the choke or an electronic ignition component. Since it is an 81 I am familar with it. (My mom had one) I think you need to verify that the choke is closing when it is cold. At that temp, I would expect the choke to be 90-100% closed. If the choke checks out, how about the module? How old is it? Here in the desert when the modules get hot, they start to break down. You might also check all your electrical connections at the coil, distributor and module. I'm thinking that the cold is causing the connectors to shrink and breaking your electrical connection.

Finally, did you check for spark while cranking? If you have spark you can rule out the ignition system and concentrate on the fuel. Unless you have water in the fuel, I don't believe the gas will freeze even at that temp. It should be formulated for your area.

I'd still have it load tested and is also the biggest one that fits. At -30, that battery is not gonna be turning over very fast.

Also remove and clean the large battery ground cable and the large cable to the starter, then retighten.

And the starter itself may be getting a bit long in the tooth on an '81 vehicle.

That is quite a bit on the heavy side for -30. Consider 5-20W or a 5-30W synthetic. The oil is too thick to allow the motor to be cranked by the starter and also too thick to allow the motor to keep moving under its own power.

5? Spark plugs new or recently changed?

If the engine doesn't fire when cranking, make sure the ignition system is in great condition and also the fuel system.

If the engine fires and just sorta sput sputs but dies, a very common reason is the oil is too thick to allow the engine to keep moving under its own power.

Take a capful or so of your oil and leave it outdoors, then try pouring it at -30. It needs to be thin, not halfway to vaseline.

May have water in it, or ice. However if the block heater allows it to start, change the oil to a 5W20 or a synth 5W20.

Sorry for the OT but where is it -30F degrees? I get the chills just thinking about that. I can't imagine what it must feel like working on a car in below zero weather. I think the coldest I've been exposed to was maybe -5F degrees when I was younger. Now where I am, its about 40 plus and I'm cold so I guess I'm too old for that minus degrees now..

Calgary Alberta. Canada.

exposed

Once you get it dried out. Carry a can of starting fluid to use on the first try and put some dry gas in it. Use an old blanket to cover the engine and cover the front of the rad with cardboard while you are at work. 30 below? Now I remember why I moved to the south. I used to leave a blow dryer on low under a blanket (carefully placed as to not burn up the car) all night, cover the rad and take the battery in the house in those temps.

I've seen days in Montana when -30 F was the HIGH temperature for the day. Alaska is a few degrees even colder.

Denny,

A couple of winters ago I had an 89 VW Jetta that just would not start when it was cold. (I'm in Edmonton, so similar conditions to you) I spent a lot of time and money trying to track down the problem and it turned out to be just a bad ground. A $12 battery cable from Canadian Tire finally resolved the problem. I also agree with others that 10W30 is too thick to run in the winter. I run 5w30 in one car and synthetic in the other. Castrol makes a good synthetic. Seems to work well. (I also use synthetic in my snowblower, and it starts all the time)

Cold really emphasizes any weaknesses in the starting systems in older cars. Gotta love living in Canada! (Just think of those long summer days when it's light until 11:00 at night and you'll make it through the winter!)

Good luck!

Eric

Eric, thank you for the info. I still have not managed to solve the starting problem. My vehicle is parked in the employee's parking where I work so it is OK there. Things are warming up here weather wise and on Thursday it is supposing to be -3 degrees.

On Thursday I will face my vehicle again. I have purchased a new set of spark plugs (gapped them) also a new distributor cap and rotor. I also plan on purchasing 4 liters of Mobil 1 oil originally I was going to buy the 5W30 but I am debating if I should use 0w30.

I will drain the oil in the pan leave the oil in the filter, change the plugs distributor, spray some "cold start liquid" down the carb and try to fire it up. and go from there.

I just mentioned to my wife the other day, remember those real hot summer days when you longed for cooler weather.

My wife has just come from work three people there cannot start their vehicles.

Nothing last forever not even the - 30's

Denny

drained

Canadian Tire

Hi Denny... first let me tell you that I am *not* a mechanic in any way shape or form. I've disliked every minute that I've ever spent working on a car. I don't even like driving. However, I've lived southeast of Fairbanks for 20 years (making an 80 mile round trip daily) and never once missed going to work because a vehicle wouldn't start. And that includes stretches of several weeks when the temperature didn't get as *warm* as

-30F. Now, of course, I live in God's Country again and have much milder winters... ;-)

Let me give you some advice: The main reason an unheated engine won't start at -30F is because the operator is smart enough not to try! (I'm saying you are *glad* it didn't start!)

Might be a good idea, but probably a waste of time. The plugs can't hurt and might help. But the rest of it requires an engine analyzer to determine if there are or are not problems. Things you'd never guess, like the bushings in the distributor rotor housing going bad...

Basically, a good tune up is necessary if an engine is going to run in cold weather. Testing the ignition and doing carburator maintenance/adjustment about September is always a good idea.

The heavier oil is better if you don't have many cold days, and if it never gets to -40 or whatever. If you do a lot of cold weather starts, use the lighter oil. But don't even think of anything other than synthetic.

But let me add some emphasis to this business with oil. Do yourself a favor and also get 1 quart of non-synthetic oil, just to show yourself something. Put about 4-10 ounzes of it into a small container (cup, jar, glass whatever) and set it outside at

-30F. Wait a couple hours for it to cool off, and then go try to pour it out of the cup. Or heck, just set the whole quart out there and try to pour it out of it's container into a cup.

Do the same thing with Mobil 1 or some other synthetic oil.

Do this at 0F too.

What you'll see is that non-synthetic just barely pours at 0F, and basically won't pour at -30F. So given that, think of what would have happened if your engine had started cold at -30F. In, oh say half an hour, how much heat would have gotten to the oil? And how much oil, during that 30 minutes, would have been being pumped into the vital bearing surfaces of your engine?

The answer is virtually none. Your engine would have run for about half an hour without any lubrication at all.

The difference with synthetic oil is that is *will* pump at that temperature. Not very well, but enough to allow oil to get into the engine, be heated up, and drain back into the oil pan. It takes a few minutes, but you have _some_ lubrication quickly and full lubrication in short order. Which is to say, it is

*still* a very bad idea... and if you are in an area where you start the car on cold days many times at all it is *essential* to get a little heat pad, 25 to 75 watts depending on engine size, and glue it to the oil pan to keep that oil warm!

If your oil is not pre-heated, don't even think about moving the vehicle for maybe 5-8 minutes after you start it. That's with synthetic oil. With regular oil, pre-heat or just don't start it at all.

*Don't* use "cold start liquid" on a 4 stroke gasoline engine.

It doesn't "burn", it explodes! It's great stuff for diesel engines...

All of that is good except the oil. Note that keeping the gas tank relatively full prevents moisture in the air space from condensing out and leaving ice crystals in the gasoline. Most filters will catch the crystals, but they can still clog up the filter. If they get to the carb... the engine won't run or won't start.

With some vehicles (and on an older one this is probably more likely) you might want to add a bit of "de-icer" or whatever it is called where you are. "Heat" is the only brand name I can think of right now, but basically it is alcohol to absorb the water. If you use it often, you can use much less than they recommend. If you use it only when necessary, just keep some in the car for "when", and pour it all in. It disperses quickly, and will even migrate up the fuel line to the engine if you wait long enough. The usual symptoms are you get the engine started, and as soon as you give it enough gas to move, it dies. Or you are cruising along the highway and it acts just like it is running out of gas. First is sputters, then it sputs, then it stops. *Don't* try to restart it! Just get out and put in the de-icer, and *then* try to restart it. By turning the engine over you'll pump the alcohol through the fuel line and clear out the filter or carburator. The trick is *don't* run the battery down before it has a chance to work. If it doesn't start, wait a little and try again. Try every 5 minutes. It will probably start in 10 to 15 minutes.

I have a chevy suburban here in Barrow, and have never needed de-icer in it, even though we typically get some pretty high relative humidity even when it is cold. In Fairbanks I drove

4wd Subaru stationwagons. About twice a year at 50-60 below the car would just suddenly sputter and die on me while driving. I'd put in the de-icer, kick all four tires, get inside and turn on just the radio and listen to one song. Then it would start and I'd be off again. (Once it did that, except it didn't start! It turned out the ignition module has died... $300 to fix that puppy.)

Floyd, Thank you kindly for this most interesting article. I have just gotten up here in Calgary, powered my computer up and find this article. I find it very helpful I will print it and study it many times through the day.

Tomorrow Thursday when I work on my vehicle for the first time since Monday I will have much more valuable information to help me.

I will keep you imformed what I find out.

Thank you kindly. Denny

degrees.

This is why we use a "block" heater or an "in-line" water heater. Putting a timer on to begin the heating process about 3 or 4 hours before you plan to start the vehicle is better than having the heater on all night. This approach also works at

-40 (C or F are the same at that temp). Work place parking lots usually have electrical plug ins here, but allow only a block heater or an interior car warmer to be plugged in - otherwise a breaker will disconnedt your circuit. Nice self-policing feature!

Ken Winnipeg, Canada

Those never started when it was cold out..