2002 Ford Escort engine problem

Ok guys..with fixing my hobby dead aerostar in the backyard, ran into a problem with our third car, a 2002 ford escort. bout 2 months back the head gasket broke and had that chocolate creamy look in the oil and had to take it in to get it fixed.(guy supposedly changed head gasket and sent the head to a head shop) Well a month later, it started to steam out radiator fluid somewhere but i couldnt seem to find the source.(I suppose the head gasket again) Strangely the temp gauge only showed bout half way temps. This morning tried to pressurize the cooling system to find out where the leak was.(pumped up to 10psi) Still couldnt find it and a little later..the thing doesnt hold any pressure now whatsoever! So then i tried to crank it up and now it starts for half a sec then seems to lock or wont turn over. So I go under the car and try to manually turn over the crankshaft clockwise and it does for bout 1/4 of a turn then locks. It literallly wont turn over! Is my engine totally screwed? Is this a symptom of a thrown rod, or a totally cracked block? Any advice is appreciated before I throw any money into it.

Edwin T.

Reply to
Edwin T.
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One or more cylinders has coolant in it from the leaking head gasket.

Hopefully you didn't bend a rod when you were cranking it.

Reply to
Mark Olson

Pull the plugs out and turn it over by hand. Don't use the starter though, unless you want to see how far you can shoot coolant. Sounds like the head gasket went again OR head cracked. What kind of guarantee did you get?

Personally I'd probably hunt up a boneyard engine if I wanted to keep the car.

Reply to
Steve W.

that's hydrolock from coolant leaking into a cylinder. remove the plugs and crank - that'll empty it.

as for the fix, at the very least, it sounds like you'll need a new head. it's not uncommon for aluminum heads that have been skimmed [at the head shop] as you describe, to quickly re-fail. cast aluminum doesn't machine to a smooth surface in the same way cast iron does, and this habit of just skimming every head that comes off a car is both ignorant and anachronistic.

reason is, it's common for the cutting head to pick up a casting inclusion during a pass, then drag that across the rest of the metal gouging a deep groove as it goes. that is hard or impossible for a gasket to seal for any length of time. aluminum heads need to be finished to a very fine surface, not far off mirror, for them to have any chance of sealing properly. a grooved surface just provides leakage channels. obviously.

again, avoid skimming aluminum heads if at all possible. if it absolutely unavoidably needs to be refinished, the best method is to abrade the surface on a machine that looks most like a belt sander, and do so only with a very fine grit. most of the time, aluminum heads don't warp enough to need skimming. the only real reason to do so then is corrosion, in which case skimming may well not be sufficient. the best way to prep an aluminum head for a new gasket is to use a solvent-based gasket remover and a fine thin bladed scraper that will not gouge, like a razor blade at a shallow angle.

when fitting a new gasket, try to get one of "variable thickness multi-layer steel". this is because as a head gets clamped onto a block, there is local elastic distortion that causes the head to bow up slightly between the bolts. a flat gasket, the cheap oem style, will compress a little, but doesn't address this bowing effect. it'll hold for a while, but failure is pretty much a matter of when, not if. with a good quality correctly manufactured variable thickness gasket, the bowing effect can be "designed out" by shaping the gasket to fit the distorted profile, not the flat profile. much like the bowed beds of big rig trailers are flat when loaded. done right, and on a properly prepared and smooth surface, this kind of gasket will seal pretty much indefinitely if there are no other factors like corrosion.

Reply to
jim beam

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Ok mechanic found out the problem..apparently it wasnt the head gasket. It was dumping coolant into 1,2,and 3 piston cylinders (which caused hydrolock) and at first it confused him. After he took the thing apart he found that there was a leak coming from the intake manifold and it was dumping coolant straight into the three of the cylenders minus a 4th. He had it fixed within 2 days and it runs fine. (have to change the oil after

100 miles to get all moisture out) Im just glad it wasnt a cracked block or another head gasket failure.
Reply to
Edwin T.

Nice to see folks know stuff. I've probably got a head gasket failure, since I lost coolant and it siezed up on the highway.

I'll start shopping for engine rebuild. Any idea of where to get the expected shop hours, or how much extra stuff I ought to get done?

'97 Subaru 2.5

Nils

Reply to
synthius2002

probably the cheapest option is to buy a used low mileage japanese engine [jdm] and swap them out rather than pay for a rebuild. most rebuilds don't last anywhere near as long as original builds.

Reply to
jim beam

That hasn't been my experience at all. I have had hundreds of warped heads machined over the years and cant remember a comeback. HTH Ben

Reply to
ben91932

if they're warped, they do need to be machined - i never said otherwise. but shops routinely machine regardless of warping, and that's both misguided and anachronistic for the reasons previously stated.

that a machined head is not finished as smooth as factory is not a matter of debate, it's a fact. and that a grooved surface will leak is not a matter of debate, it's a fact. so, when you say you've "never had a comeback", we have to analyze that statement:

imagine you're nate. imagine you just spent a bunch of money having some bearings replaced in your f150. then a year later, you discover they weren't fixed. truthfully, are you going to take it back to the same guy? i suggest to you that the answer is invariably NO. add to that the fact that most people seem to have this mindset of "i'm not spending more to fix it than the car's worth, especially not a second time" and you have a full explanation of why you're not seeing any comebacks.

i've worked in a fleet environment. i've seen skimmed heads give endless problems. i got to see that because we used to keep the same vehicles on the road rebuild after rebuild, we never used to just get rid of them like private owners do.

Reply to
jim beam

Did he explain how that "leak" happened?

Reply to
hls

Unfortunately he didnt. All I know is that he fixed the problem (I assume he caused the problem since I guess he had to remove the intake to remove the head)I myself had forgotten that there are radiator passages in the intake manifold.shows how much I know.

Reply to
Edwin T.

It is pretty common for plastic intake manifolds to fail and dump coolant into the cylinders. HTH Ben

Reply to
ben91932

Initially yes I would. Anyone anywhere can make a mistake. If I spent good money for a repair I would go straight back to the same place and see if they will do the right thing. From my reading this group for the last couple of years, it seems that a significant percentage of the problems posted here are caused by defective customers not necessarily bad technicians. Folks who chase coupons, cheap prices and jiffylube type chain stores rarely get good, competent service. I cant understand how these guys can be smart enough to keep a job, pay a mortgage etc when they are so stupid about car repairs. A *good* repair shop charges way over $100 per hour because they are worth it. You can get a job done correctly, cheap or fast, but never all 3.

Well... you would be wrong

Wrong again. I have some customers that have been with me for 20+ years. The only thing you have a full explanation of is your own experience....

I dont doubt you at all But dont you think it would have been wiser to either check the machine work *before* you installed the head or switch to a competent machine shop? A few brain cells and a calibrated fingernail is all I have ever used to check a machine shops work, perhaps you may have had better luck had you tried....

Reply to
ben91932

It is pretty common for plastic intake manifolds to fail and dump coolant into the cylinders. HTH Ben

** I suspected that the mechanic himself precipitated this problem. Bad gasket, improper tightening, etc. Yes, plastic manifolds can fail, but this one seemed a little] suspicious to me.
Reply to
hls
*******

BS.. Depends on where you are what the shop charges. Some of the best shops here charge $60 or somewhat more.

But NOT "way over $100 per hour". Maybe where you are that is true but not everywhere.

A job properly done can be reasonable, or ever cheap, considering the circumstances.

But, I know what you are trying to say, and dont disagree in principle.

Reply to
hls

wow, that is such a classic, it's worth repeating: "a significant percentage of the problems posted here are caused by defective customers".

that's a complete gem! next up, "news at 10 - plane crashed because of defective passengers".

most people never touch under the hood of their car. so, pretty much by definition, unless you're talking crash damage, all service problems are caused by bad technicians. [and that includes bad service departments that don't have their act together on reminding customers on when to come in for the next scheduled service - but /excludes/ service departments that try to jerk their customers off with 3000 mile blinker fluid and muffler bearing changes].

technician problems include: those that use tap water to dilute antifreeze... those that are clumsy enough to break brake piston boot rubbers... those that don't know how to change brake shoes without bending or damaging springs... those that don't use a torque wrench... those that don't clean stuff properly or use the wrong lubricants... those that use silicone "gasket" sealant for just about everything that it shouldn't be used for... those that routinely skim cylinder heads that don't need it...

iow, technicians that don't know what they're doing.

how much should i pay a guy that doesn't know about head surface machining quality and how much it effects gasket seal durability?

as wrong as the guy that thinks he should be paid $100 per hour for not knowing about factors that determine gasket seal durability?

"some"? "some" like 5%? 2%? 1%? and there has to be a reason why all the others /didn't/ come back.

true - but not for the reasons you're trying to suggest. and it's ridiculous to try and make that kind of statement if your experience /isn't/ broad enough to know about this stuff. and it clearly isn't.

it's more than disingenuous to suggest that anyone wouldn't check. just like it's disingenuous to say such a thing without addressing the fact that machine shops routinely do not and /cannot/ finish to oem standards

- they don't have the tooling to do so.

Reply to
jim beam

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