2008 Kia Optima - Steering Wheel Vibration at speeds over 50mph since

Constant flexing from the bent spindle causes metal fatigue and the spindle breaks off at high speed. Front corner digs in and the car flips end over end into a school bus filled with blind children....

DUH, FIX IT!!!!

___________________________ I thought the spindle was the stationary part and the hub/wheel assembly/tire was what rotated around it?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

-CC

the kia is fwd, so the spindle rotates inside the bearing. but the reciprocating mass flexes everything it's attached to and causes fatigue. do you need to be told the consequences again? get it fixed.

___________________ Thanks all! Now that I know this is a "red" and not a "yellow" - as in, save up until you have enough money to fix it - issue, I will act accdly, and change the color code back to "green".

-CC

you can often save significant money repairing a kia by getting parts from a vehicle dismantler. because their depreciation rate is high, they tend to be written off early by the insurer [repair cost exceeds vehicle value] so you can get parts in good condition from late model cars at significant savings. that should help you bring the repair forwards. and most spindle bends are passenger side, not driver, so again, this improves your chances of getting what you need.

___________________ Sad to hear about the depreciation aspect of these cars. From my personal experience this '08 Optima will out handle ANY Chevy Malibu, not just the electrically power steered 2005 it replaced! I didn't say overpower, just the handling aspect. Who needs all that power if all it does is go straight or get you in a lurch? LOL!

Thanks for the advice though, and I will be looking into getting this fixed.

-CC

It's what they call a "possible wheel fly-off condition."

--scott

_______________________ Took it to a body shop I've used in the past this afternoon. While he was taking notes on his clipboard I casually mentioned my past weekend travels: CT to Maryland, and he almost dropped the clipboard and pen! Based upon my description - and demonstation - of what the steering wheel was doing he was genuinely shocked that I went that far with the wheel doing that!

At minimum he wants to replace both the spindle assy and left front bearing. He says tie-rod end may be optional, but suggests the previous two items should eliminate the shimmying and crooked steering wheel.

-CC

you should also know that the suspension components are usually pretty freakin' strong, so it's highly unusual to bend these things without frame alignment also being affected. check and make sure they're looking at that as part of the repair.

I wonder how a bent spindle would cause steering wheel side to side movement? If it is bent, it is bent in one direction only and does not flop back and forth. My guess is a bent wheel or bent hub flange.

___________________ See beam's first reply to my o.p. I guess that explains it. I, like you, assumed an automotive "spindle" was stationary - like the one on a record turntable or your finger with a roll of Scotch tape spinning around it.

Apparantly on some vehicles that is not the case.

-CC

I think it may be terminology. I just looked at your front hub assembly on kiatechinfo and it is almost identical to my 06 Spectra. Its possible that what everyone here calls a spindle is actually the hub (and hub flange). There is no spindle. Either way, the metal will warm up and stress fracture. Better check the wheel, too, if its the same one. Check the run out. Swap front to back and check both tires again.

______________ I did mention both the rim replacement when it happened and my most recent rotation/balancing. I should be getting a quote soon.

CC

A slightly bent spindle? How does one diagnose and prove that? Sounds to me like the shop couldnt get it right and so blamed it on something expensive to assuage customer doubts and expectations.

I would still check the cheap stuff first: inner tie rod ends and tires for tread separations. Most of the cars I see with a 'shimmy' like that end up being caused by one or both of those. HTH, Ben

Real easy actually. Pull the front apart and check the runout on the flange.

Worn tie rods don't usually show up as shimmy. That is because the caster angle loads them enough that they only show as tire wear or wander while steering. Plus if they are worn they don't transmit as much back to the wheel (because the wear makes the ball float instead of connect solid).

Tread plies could make this happen , BUT Chris has already had tires rotated,/replaced and rims checked as well. If it was a bad tire the symptoms would have changed to follow it.

I'm betting that the curb hit was an off camber hit and it was enough to tweak the spindle inside the hub assy. enough that it is causing problems. If it was mine and I wanted to keep it I would replace the axle and hub as well as the entire steering knuckle assy. I would also check the ball joints REAL close as well as strut/shock mounts for that corner.

_______________________________

Last week had Tie Rod End, Knuckle(spindle) and Bearing replaced on the front left in my original post. Total cost around $1,000.

Secondly, the shop that did the alignment part(the alignment shop is separate from the body shop and is same one I always use) attempted to correct an excessively negative rear right wheel Camber. This was diagnosed on my alignment from last December, 2010 and had nothing to do with my curb impact from earlier 2010. It was at the maximum negativity acc to spec at that time.

Last week, they put a shim in *supposedly* to correct this negative camber in the rear right, and now it is 1/2 MORE negative than before! Did the tech just put the shim on the wrong way?

Over all it is not affecting my ride much, but at least with the front end parts replaced and the toe fine-tuned the steering wheel is no longer crooked positively(to the right) and the car no longer pulls to the left. It now pulls to the right normally - as it would on a crowned street. It does not roll as much as it did before the alignment(I attribute that to the new bearing and other parts replaced on the front left) but I suspect that will work in after a week or so of driving it normally. The steering wheel straightens out STRAIGHT from a turn now and the car gradually drifts to the right without driver input. Just like my old 1981 Buick! Finally!!

-CC

ok, a few things.

1. a buick is not a good frame of reference. seriously.

1. the steering wheel being straight doesn't mean a thing, it just means it was centered on the "forwards" direction. you could be crabbing down the woad with a rear wheel 6" outside of the front, and have the wheel straight if the frame is bent.

2. as mentioned last time, it's rare to bend suspension components without also bending the frame to which they're attached. shimming isn't the way to fix a bent frame. you need to take it back and get the frame alignment numbers, then compare them with the shop manual or alldata. if, as i suspect, the frame's still out, you need to take it back and get them to tweak it.

1. the car should not track to the right, to the left, or to your grandmother's apple pies. it should drive straight unless the crown camber is substantial. and even then, one of the "attributes" of macpherson suspension is that it is /much/ less sensitive to road camber than wishbone. it really shouldn't be doing this.

take it on to something known flat like a bridge. [most bridge decks have no camber] and see if it still pulls. if it does, you still have an alignment issue. frame alignment is the #1 suspect.

re frame straightening, it's hard to find people that really know their business. most shops are geared towards insurance work and getting the thing out the door as cheaply as possible. try to find a shop that does frame straightening for the local auto sports crowd - they always bend their toys on the weekends - much more likely to know what they're doing and to get it right.

_______________________

Thanks for the kind input, I'm sure. As I just said, it drives the way I'm used to a car driving. I don't need a car that *compensates* for road crown. I just happen to be very sensitive to this and do not like meeting opposing traffic head on in a relatively new car(my previous Malibu, Impala, and Ford Contour all did this when new). I know why the veh mfgs are doing this, and it's WRONG. Now I damaged my Kia's front end by hitting a curb at 30mph and now it's been fixed to drive as I remember it driving.

Road crown varies WIDELY by locale. Go to any Jersey shore town - I'm sure you'll see a very pronounced crown to the roads to alleviate flooding on streets less than 1/2 mile from the waters edge and less than 10ft AMSL(you can look that one up!). Compare that to a road inland in New hampshire or CT, and you'd have to kneel down on the curb with your head touching the sidewalk before you could distinguish the camber there. And then there's the bridge deck you mentioned. How the HECK can a mfg accommodate all those different conditions? How do they know WHERE the car they produce in Detroit(or Tokyo or Georgia) will be purchased and driven????

An auto mfg attempting to compensate for camber is just frustrating the matter. Design in EQUAL camber and caster left-to-right give or take a quarter degree tolerance and be done with it!

As far as the frame issues you brought up - I understand all those concepts. You must understand that if that much damage was done to the frame of this Kia one of two things would have happened already: #1. They would have mentioned it to me after taking measurements on the rack. ~or~ #2. I'd probably be DEAD by now and not typing this! Because the kind of impact required to knock my frame out as much as you are suggesting would have probably required a life-consuming high- speed multi-vehicle ACCIDENT.

Juss' sayin...

they don't attempt to compensate for it. as long as you don't call using macpherson suspension compensation anyway.

if you have roads with a large camber, you will get some drift, even with macpherson. if the car is properly aligned anyway. what i asked was whether you get it when you're driving on a road without camber. if you are, there is an alignment issue. if not, then what you're experiencing on the crowned roads is normal.

depends who was paying for it. if it's the insurance company and they want to keep costs down, having the frame just a little out is "acceptable", particularly if the shop's saying they can correct the alignment issue with a shim.

i'm suggesting a small bend, not cabin crush.

far from it. "crumple zones" are good for two things:

1. deforming to save energy in an impact and thus reducing passenger injury.
2. ensuring the frame bends at lower impact speeds thus ensuring new car sales. seriously, this is a real design consideration.

it really doesn't take much to get a small frame bend. impact sufficient to bend suspension components is easily there.