2013 Hyundai Sonata - Caster at low end of Spec Range

Camber IS adjustable.

. you are correct:

On that generation Sonata, rear camber is adjustable. I already had rear camber made less negative, from -1.4 to -0.8deg.

Now I'm trying to find out why my Sonata has barely the minimum spec caster, and what if anything needs repair or replacement to gain a half degree back.

Why would you want to bother with this? There is no effect on tire wear, and even another degree of caster will have almost no effect on feel. It's a waste of time to even think about it.

Personally I would not bother. Caster is back and forth on the tire. The tower holes could be elongated or eccentric bolts installed on the lower control arms, or the arm retainers slotted. $500 and up. Everything that changes caster will also change camber and toe. It will be back and forth adjusting for a couple of hours. Add another $500.

Bill Vanek wrote: "Why would you want to bother with this? There is no effect on tire wear, and even another degree of caster will have almost no effect on feel. It's a waste of time to even think about it. "

Simply because my caster is at the bottom of the specified range. And of all the alignment parameters, caster is the most important to me, and it sucks that that particular spec is at the lower end. If it was between 4.3-4.7 degrees positive, this thread would not exist. :)

This is why you should never check the specs on the alignment. If the tires are wearing fine and it handles like it's supposed to, there's no need to check it out.

My front

This is why you should never check the specs on the alignment. If the tires are wearing fine and it handles like it's supposed to, there's no need to check it out.

The front end of my VW needs to have the suspension parts changed. My tires are wearing on the inside and outside edges. I sure wish I had your problem. :)

dsi1:

Look up online "2011 Hyundai Sonata wandering" and you'll understand why the concern. Although most of the issues were resolved by the third model year of the YF body Sonata, it is still good to havr alignment checked, especially on a used one with 30,000 miles.

Another contributor to the wandering was the electric power steering and what mode it was set in at the factory. Mine was set to 'Soft'(maximum boost, minimum driver effort). I had my dealer set it to 'Sport'(minimum boost, most driver effort needed to steer car). In soft, even slight changes to the road angle, or a mild cross wind, would wrest the wheel from drivers' hands! It was reminiscent of the 70s 'one fingered' steering on full size models.

Sport mode was a huge step in normalizing the handling/road feel of my Sonata, but I figured finding a way to maximize caster - within specs - would really ice the cake. :)

Just tell the alignment guy your problem and he'll probably just change the toe-im. I don't know if they'll be in spec but that should improve straigh t line stability. The young alignment guy might not want to do it so find t he oldest, most ornery-looking coot in the shop and ask him. The price you pay will be increased tire wear.

Changing the toe will help only if it's so far off right now that the car is wandering back and forth. The only things that affect steering return to center are camber, caster, and kingpin inclination.

Bill Vanek wrote: "Changing the toe will help only if it's so far off right now that the car is wandering back and forth. The only things that affect steering return to center are camber, caster"

Here are my last specs from the dealer:

*First sets of numbers are specs. "Mine" are what my car is at as of time of reading by technician.

FRONT: Camber: 0 to -1.0deg Mine: L= -.2deg R= -.8

Caster: -3.9 to -4.9deg Mine: L= -3.8 R= -3.9

Toe: -0.02 to +0.18deg Mine: L= +0.08 R= +0.03

REAR: Camber: -0.5 to -1.5deg Mine(reduced from -1.5): L= -.9 R= -.7

Toe: -0.02 to +0.19deg Mine: L= +0.01 R= +0.45

Total Rear Toe: -0.03 to +0.37deg Mine: +0.46deg

Thrust: -0.22deg

See anything that pops your eyeballs?

Lots of cross camber in front - could make it pull to the left, and rear toe is out of spec. It's not much, but will contribute to tire wear.

If the car simply feels a little "unsure" as far as straight lines go, try fiddling with the tire pressure. Try an increase, try a decrease. It can sometimes make a substantial difference. My experience has been that the recommended pressure is almost always the best.

- show quoted text - "Lots of cross camber in front - could make it pull to the left, and rear toe is out of spec. It's not much, but will contribute to tire wear. "

Yeah, didn't think about that front camber! It's 'in spec', but cross camber is greater than half a degree.

As far as rear toe goes: The way it is now is countering

*some* of the left pull due to slightly less positive left caster and significantly less negative left front camber. That's probably why the alignment tech himself told me he "wouldn't touch it".

Here's the issue: Both Hyundai dealers say there's nothing that can be done about that camber. The "camber kit" available early on in this run of Sonata is no longer available, so they say, and I should just "live with it".

I don't believe them!

"If the car simply feels a little "unsure" as far as straight lines go, try fiddling with the tire pressure. Try an increase, try a decrease. It can sometimes make a substantial difference. My experience" that the recommended pressure is almost always the best. "

Unsure?? LOL It is definitely a two-hand car, at 30 or 60mph.

We seem to agree on tire pressures. Hyundai's recommended pressure is 33psi cold, all around. I keep it 35psi, as it firms up the ride and handling a bit.

Vanek: This car is very 'busy' spec-wise: It has a lot of counter-aligning going on: Negative rear thrust angle countering the aforementioned caster and camber issues in the front. It's like driving in a 'fog'.

What it really needs is a little more left-front negative camber, and maybe a little less negative right-front camber. That is actually more of an issue than the caster, now that you pointed it out.

So my challenge is finding someone to go above and beyond, even if there are just slightly bent parts up front causing it, and nothing else.

The rear end will not make the car pull. The thrust angle can make the car move to one side, but that's not pull, it's simply where the car is pointed. It's trivial to correct the rear toe, and that should correct the thrust angle. Rear caster will do nothing, but rear camber & toe will cause those tires to wear.

I don't think you should believe them. It's also possible that you could shift the engine cradle, or whatever is used for the suspension support, a little bit. Was the car ever in a collision? If not, there must be a way to adjust the camber, at least with aftermarket parts.

Are your tires overinflated, or right at the recommended pressure for the installed tires?

But do you have the original spec'd tires on the car? Are they good tires? Tires can have a serious impact on road feel.

If you don't live in a big city area, you might have a problem finding someone. Are there any racing shops, specialty shops, reputable tire shops? I have to admit that even in bigger cities, it can be a challenge finding someone. All you can do is drive around, talk to different people, and hope to find someone who sounds like he knows what he's talking about. For instance, if he tells you that toe can make it pull to one side, or caster causes tire wear, he's not that someone. And there are other commonly ignored specs that can help point to bent parts, like toe-on-turns, and kingpin inclination.

te:

the toe-im. I don't know if they'll be in spec but that should improve stra ight line stability. The young alignment guy might not want to do it so fin d the oldest, most ornery-looking coot in the shop and ask him. The price y ou pay will be increased tire wear.

I believe that the OP is experiencing wandering back and forth.

He is, but in a subsequent post we can see that the toe is okay. He does have a thrust angle issue - it's non-zero, but I don't know how far off is too far off.

ge the toe-im. I don't know if they'll be in spec but that should improve s traight line stability. The young alignment guy might not want to do it so find the oldest, most ornery-looking coot in the shop and ask him. The pric e you pay will be increased tire wear.

If it wanders, doesn't that mean that the toe is not OK? You have to get an experienced alignment guy to adjust the toe-in based on the problem. The t oe-in might not be to spec. If this is a common problem with these cars, th en you'll have to go out of spec. Well that's my opinion anyway. If you're saying that he has to get the rear end squared away first well, yes, of cou rse.

Not if it measures okay. Crappy tires, road surface, loose/worn parts

- including in the rear, probably other things I'm forgetting, those will cause it. Also, it it's the toe, the car will tend to jump around side to side, and in small amounts, as opposed to just slowly drifting back and forth.

Bill Vanek, dsi1:

Thank you for all of your well-thought out insights!

Bill: The wander is gradual, over time, and having both hands on the wheel at all times seems to minimize it, but it is a tiring way to have to drive.

The elephant in the room seems to be that front cross camber, which my alignment sheet seems to indicate equals negative 0.5. I always thought the difference betwen -0.8 and -02. is 0.6. That is enough for concern, and it seems correcting that alone would solve my problem.

The excessive rear toe could be corrected at some point in the future.

I actually prefer a *gradual* pull(or point) to the right, for obvious safety reasons, and that is what would happen once that front neg camber is closer to equal. As it is now, changes in local road crown and overall road angle are producing gradual wander either way, at local speeds and highway speed. I read somewhere about 'camber thrust' - and I believe that is what my front cross camber is contributing to.

I just need to find someone who is willing to do *whatever* it takes to fix it - replace parts, slot something, whatever!

I have not made my first payment on this car yet, and will return it if this issue cannot be solved.