3rd transmission for Explorer, what's the deal?

Yeah, about that.. You can try to see if Turd Motor Company will goodwill this. Sometimes they do. They seem to be better about it than GM, but not worldclass.

======== ======== thts fk'n funny....

i don't care who you are

THAT WAS FK'N FUNNY!!!!!!!

rotflmao

~:~ marshmonster ~:~

How does a cracked flex plate eat the transmission and torque converter?

Ed

Sounds like the truck was run pretty hard for the past 12 years for that much repeat damage to occur.

You have 3 choices: 1. Pay up and get it repaired. 2. Buy a boneyard gearbox. 3. Junk what is likely an otherwise wornout truck.

You are kidding right??? Which specific "details" was the mechanic (not the dealer) not paying attention to that would cause that damage to occur. I think we have someone looking for a free ride.

The explanation of what has occured under that contract is that the truck is out of warranty, the dealer is no longer responsible and the owner is SOL.

If I liked the truck I would pay up for the damage I am likely responsible for.

What failed about them?

That seems fair.

I seriously doubt poor installation contributed to the damage of the flex plate, especially if it's been two years since the job. I also wonder how the damaged flex plate could "eat" the torque converter and transmission. Was he driving it for a long time with the flex plate broken, and if so why?

How many miles are on this thing?

--scott

Sarcastic answer: "very effectively." :-)

Real answer: it lets the TC "wobble" which chews up the input shaft and bushings on the transmission, and (when it gets bad enough) chews up the stator and turbine inside the convertor.

I agree- it likely wasn't installation error, because any mistake in assembly of the engine to transmission would cause an IMMEDIATE failure. A broken flex plate wouldn't cause an immediate failure, but the driver would NOTICE it, or the flex plate itself would probably fail completely before damaging anything else.

One thing I have had happen though is a rebuilt torque convertor with the output shaft ever-so-slightly off-center (which is very possible, given that they rebuild torque convertors by cutting them open and then welding the halves back together). Over the course of about 50,000 miles, the slight wobble chewed up the input bushing on the transmission. The eventual failure was that the input bushing spun in the pump housing. No actual damage to the convertor, though, and the shop might never have suspected the root cause and measured the runout on the convertor shaft if it wasn't such an oddball failure mode- input bushings wear out, but the rarely go so far as to spin in the case!

Right, but when this is happening it is VERY obvious that something is horribly wrong.

Drivers who continue driving the vehicle when it clear that something is horribly wrong with it, who do not check the vehicle when it is clear that something is not right, are as responsible for the failure as the damaged plate.

--scott

It seems to me that the cracked flex plate was a symptom, rather than the cause. I'd guess the transmission was improperly aligned when replaced.

Ed

OK... but how the hell do you DO that? I guess the block or transmission case could actually have a casting face out of alignment, but I can't imagine an error that gross getting past QC at Kia, let alone Ford.

Another possiblity would be excessive crankshaft endplay. Got bit by that one on an old Dart, and didn't figure it out until it ate the second trans (I paid someone to replace it the first time.) This was a supposedly "fresh rebuilt" engine, well guess what, wasn't rebuilt too well now was it!

nate

========= =========

On Jul 26, 12:12?pm, Steve anwers the quiz question.......

How does a cracked flex plate eat the transmission and torque converter?

Sarcastic answer: "very effectively." :-)

Real answer: it lets the TC "wobble" which chews up the input shaft and bushings on the transmission, and (when it gets bad enough) chews up the stator and turbine inside the convertor.-

=========== ===========

Correct Answer : The vibration causes the stators in the pump AND convertor to go out.......fubar'n the rest of the tranny by dump'n debris throughout the system, AND....most likely causing a front pump seal failure BEFORE it gits that far along.

fact,not fiction

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his mushroom tea....takes a toke......mmmmmmm...... good stuff~ ~:~

======== ======== Scott Dorsey contributed to the thread with: . I seriously doubt poor installation contributed to the damage of the flex plate, especially if it's been two years since the job. ?I also wonder how the damaged flex plate could "eat" the torque converter and transmission. ?Was he driving it for a long time with the flex plate broken, and if so why? ========== ========== On Jul 26, 12:18 pm, Steve replied: . I agree- it likely wasn't installation error, because any mistake in assembly of the engine to transmission would cause an IMMEDIATE failure. A broken flex plate wouldn't cause an immediate failure, but the driver would NOTICE it, or the flex plate itself would probably fail completely before damaging anything else.

One thing I have had happen though is a rebuilt torque convertor with the output shaft ever-so-slightly off-center (which is very possible, given that they rebuild torque convertors by cutting them open and then welding the halves back together). Over the course of about 50,000 miles, the slight wobble chewed up the input bushing on the transmission. The eventual failure was that the input bushing spun in the pump housing. No actual damage to the convertor, though, and the shop might never have suspected the root cause and measured the runout on the convertor shaft if it wasn't such an oddball failure mode- input bushings wear out, but the rarely go so far as to spin in the case!

=========== ===========

I disagree........ It VERY likely "could" have been installer error.

has anyone bothered asking this dude ....... "has the rear main seal been replaced?"

No?......no one asked?

ok

hold on.......i'll scroll up to the office and git the customer, ask a few impertant questuns........

if'n ya'll don't mind that the shop idiot take a stab at it that is...

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his crownroyal....wipes the cow dung off'n a shroom and drops it in the glass..........mmmmmmm.......good stuff~ ~:~

========= =========

no chance in hell.

i would spit, cuss, stomp my feet, chunk a wrench, slap my wife, and kick the car door in..........

then.....i would git over it and find me a GOOD tranny tech if i wanted to fix it.

as a side note...... I agree with you that attention to detail was "most likely" the cause of the whole damd mess.

~:~ MarshMonster ~takes a toke...........................blows a smoke ring...... mmmmmm........good stuff~ ~:~

====== ====== On Jul 27, 10:03?am, Steve asks and comments about misalignment on install with:

OK... but how the hell do you DO that?

I guess the block or transmission case could actually have a casting face out of alignment, but I can't imagine an error that gross getting past QC at Kia, let alone Ford.- Hide quoted text -

======== ========

You need to extract the information given in the original post, use knowledge based on hands on experience, and formulate a good, solid, found, GUESS as to what "most likely" has occured with this customers vehicle.

The truck was 8...EIGHT......8.......years OLD when his brother bought it 3 years ago.

The "DEALER"........"replaced" it under warranty 2 times.

The transmission is "ONE" year out of warranty.

The customer has owned the vehicle 3 years.

The first TWO...2...units were warrantied 2 years ago.

The the owner had the truck for ONE...year, and it was under warranty, now he's had it for 3 years, and it's ONE year out of warranty.

HYPOTHESIS....BASED ON THE INFO...AND ...... hands on experience....

The truck was purchased from a non-OEM used car lot. The OP never stated the EIGHT year old truck came from an OEM Dealership.

Used car lots hardly ever GIVE extended warranties, and most don't even offer them on a contract basis, there in lies the reason for only a one year warranty. And.....he's fk'n lucky they give him that. My GUESS would be that he still owed a chunk of change at a "Buy Here Pay Here" used car lot.....or they wouldn't have fixed it the first 2 times.

Used car lots tend to take the trannies out themselves to save money, then install a USED unit or get some low-ball shade tree butcher shop to "overhaul" (lmao) it for around $300 or $400. (patch it)

The entire transmission job was "most likely" performed by inferior techs......which has led to the current failure.

AND YES......it IS entirely possible, and MOST probable that the current failure is directly the result of not pay'n attention to detail on the INSTALLATION...of the unit.

....................

now......to answer YOUR QUESTION........

The transmission can be misaligned on reinstall by several factors, namely not checking that the flywheel spacer is in good shape. They are WELL KNOWN for cracking and going bad. The convertor hub on the exterior, front, uses this to center the convertor and keep it from wobbl'n about. (tearing up front seals and stator bushings, and pumps) The convertor pilot is intended to fit snug into the spacer... absolute minimal clearance.

The transmission can be misaligned if the yard bird that yanked it out....yanked out the alignment pins in the back of the engine along with the tranny. Because they were cankered into the aluminum case, and when the OTHER unit was reinstalled, the alignment pins were gone, he didn't notice it because he didn't know what to look for, and after all......he's a yardbird....and he's gonna be at another used car lot in 6 months working under a lean to.......so why does he care.

The crankshaft may have longitudinal play in it. (was kinds wonder'n why none of thunk'd of that one) This is gonna act like a comode plunger on the front pump section of the tranny you know.

Someone "may have" installed a rear main seal in this thing AFTER the yard bird did his thing........and the crank bolts] may have been overtightened.......which WILL cause the flywheel to crack......Not to mention the fact that if they used a freek'n prybar to pop it off the crank cuz it wuz stuck on there from the years of baked on enamel.....i mean oil......they cudda wopped that sucker make'n it out of balance. Again, a yard bird reinstall failure. Keep in mind......the OP ......NOT ONCE...stated that ANY repairs have been made to the vehicle since the first tranny episode.......and he has YET to do a repost to address ANY of you guys questions and concerns. so fk him

any whooo.......

I have SEVERAL more ways to misalign a transmission......

but my fangers get'n a bit tired, and i'm kinda antsy to gits on over to the Dodge Truck NG and see if I've started any fights since yesterday......

~~ oo L O

~:~ MarshMonster ~sips his crownroyal.....and wonders how many of you know there are TWO bolts on that unit that help align it to the case~ ~:~ =========== ===========

I"m not sure about the 96 models but in the earlier models the pilot bearing in the end of the crank (that the transmission main shaft pilots into) is machined at the factory on the vehicle to ensure proper alignment. If the pilot bearing gets worn out and is replaced in the field it can be difficult to get it "centered" with the accuracy the factory is able to. That can also lead to premature failures of the transmission from what I have read in the past.

======== ========

I agree.................you are not sure.

Let me assure you.........Ford AUTOMATIC.....trannies do NOT..... have pilot bearings!! yet....to date...as of now....none..not any.. not one.....ever....never.

you can now feel assured that your not sure what's sure to be a sure thing........of that.....I asure you.

~:~ MarshMonster ~takes a toke..........mmmmmmm.......sure is good~ ~:~

LOL, you are right, I had a brain fart. But the info as to the alignment of some bearing being done at the factory is something I read that was tied to these things giving problems later in the field during rebuilds if the bearing had to be replaced. I guess it could have been for manual transmissions.

Gerotor pumps got stators? That's a new one on me (and the guys who designed them....)

;-)